The last straw


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Hi there.

 

I simply joined this site because I need advice, input, and thoughts from all of you. I'm in dire need of help and it seems as if nothing is working. 

 

Here is my story..

 

I have been married for 9 months (in the temple) to a man I've known for almost 7 years now. Ever since we got married, I've noticed that he didn't want to be intimate often. He was "too tired" or "not in the right state of mind". I thought this was very weird because when we were dating, he couldn't keep himself off of me. I also noticed him escaping in video games a TON. I would come home from work and simply want to talk. I couldn't because he was too busy playing. Sometimes I would have to stand next to the computer to get his attention but he wouldn't even look at me as I spoke.

 

After multiple times of feeling denied and rejected, I quit pushing for intimacy. I can only take the hurt for so long. He finally told me that his feelings for me had died or maybe were never there in the beginning??? 

 

I'm not sure what has shifted nor can he tell me what's going on. We've tried counseling - didn't work. We've talked with multiple leaders of the church (Bishop, Stake President, and so on) - nothing. We have both reached out to our families. His mother tells him to simply pray for these feelings...............

 

After pondering it a lot, I think that he was in love with me at a time but no longer is. I think he loves me as a person but he is not in love with me. Those are two completely different things. He said his feelings were gone even before we got married but he thought they would come back. Well after 9 months... nothing has changed except a lot of depression, fighting and misery. It's felt like I've been living with a roommate. 

 

We talk about our relationship all the time. We are very open with one another but how many times will I have to hear that he just doesn't have the feelings? I've tried to serve him. I've tried to do things we don't normally do. I've really tried my hardest! However, I feel so done. I really don't know if his feelings will come back, and frankly I'm tired of waiting and hoping because I feel like my feelings have been killed. I've thoroughly contemplated divorce and so has he. I feel he's afraid to leave so he just asks me what we should do. Should we divorce? Do you think that's the right thing?? Have we given it enough time?? 

 

*Sigh* 

 

Thoughts? Help?

 

 

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I feel for you.  Please know that he has problems and you deserve so much more.  Do yourself a favor and get out before any more damage to your self esteem can be done.  I imagine he has intimacy issues and possibly is doing porn or cheating.  The video games are an escape.  Move on, and let the Lord guide you.

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I'm so sorry to hear this. It sounds like a tough situation. I do give you props for working on serving him, but you unfortunately have the added trial of not seeing any effort from your husband's side.

I like to think if he truly wanted to leave you he would. Has he seen a medical doctor? I can't help but think he would at least want to be intimate.

I hate to support divorce particularly when I'm just some lady on the Internet who read one post, but it doesn't sound as if kids are part of the equation (don't bring any in at this time, by the way. Band-Aid babies are a myth.)

Once again, I'm glad you are serving your husband and urge you to continue. But what are you doing to take care of yourself? You're struggling too. I won't suggest replacing the spot of a marriage with other relationships, but make sure you are building and sstrengthening relationships with friends and family - sounds like you need that support network. Pray for your husband but also yourself.

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My advice:

It's not good to have your love for him be dependent on his love for you.  Your love for him should be unconditional.  Now, how you express that love may be different according to the situation.  For example - if your love for him is dependent on what he does for you, then anytime he does something that hurts you (nobody is perfect, some are bigger idiots than others), then you're going to be miserable.  Rather, the joy comes from your ability to love him.  This is marriage. 

 

Now, how do you express that love?  Should you do acts of service for him day in and day out even if he ignores you all day long?  Or should you leave the house and let him stew in his own misery?  etc. etc. etc.

 

All those questions are for YOU alone to answer.  But, the main idea is - that you fulfill your marital covenant by bringing yourself and your husband closer to Christian ideals.  It is founded on the 2nd great commandment to love others (in this case your husband) as you love yourself - husband and yourself... not just husband forgetting yourself, and neither is it just yourself forgetting husband.  Note that this commandment doesn't come with conditions - like, love your husband only if he loves you back.

 

So, that is your covenant that you entered into freely - to love your husband... no pre-conditions.

 

Now, let's say you wake up tomorrow and you find out your husband is a serial killer and that's why he has been distant... how can you continue to love him?  Well, if I were in that situation, I would leave my husband to protect myself (I can't love him if I'm in danger for my life), then continue to love him by trying to find a way to get him back to Christ - that might involve putting him in jail so he will not kill people anymore, then praying for him daily that the Holy Spirit may be able to soften his heart and restore his testimony in the gospel, and getting him what he needs in jail - like a counselor and even a spiritual adviser, etc.

 

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

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Just blue sky stuff here....

low testosterone, medication side effects, mental health issues, 'good boy syndrome', guilt about sin (past or current), unresolved conflict or hurt feelings, feeling unworthy of being loved, or just not doing what it takes to maintain love.

 

Lots of people think that love just happens between a couple and you don't have to do anything to maintain it.  For a time it is like that, but sooner or later you run out of steam.  You talk about serving him and trying hard to get his love.  If he is to maintain love for you, then HE needs to be working at it.  You can't make him love you by doing the 'right things'.  Is he serving you, is he working to make you happy, is he serving God doing his duty in the church?  When you serve somebody you grow to love them more. 

 

Does he understand how painful this is for you?  Is he willing to make changes for the sake of having a happier marriage?  Does he know what you need to feel loved, and is he willing to make your happiness more important to him than his own desires?

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I don't know much about computer games, but can you play them together, either with or against each other? Even if you don't really want to? 

 

Lots of solo time in front of a screen, a lack of interest in human interaction, and a lack of interest in intimacy could be symptoms of depression. 

 

Just my own opinion, as long as no one is being physically hurt and he continues to fulfill the role of provider, even if he is not fulfilling other roles, 9 months seems to be a little short for a temple marriage. I think the temple deserves longer than that. 

 

I understand that your tired. What are your sources of strength? Whatever and whoever they are, it sounds like you need to be drawing more from them than you are at present. Perhaps it might be useful for you to temporarily be a little selfish for a while and spend more time than you have been on things, and with people, that make you feel good. Hopefully doing that will give you more strength to continue with an uncomfortable situation. I would suggest that you do what you can to continue with an uncomfortable situation for the time being, and when it becomes too uncomfortable, withdraw a little to those things and people that enable you to renew your strength, and once it is renewed, then back to the marriage. I'm not talking about moving out and then back in and then out and then back and so on, I'm talking about where and how you spend your time and where you focus your efforts, attention and emotions - sometimes on him, sometimes on your marriage, and sometimes, when needed, on yourself.

 

This is not a solution, it is a survival strategy that will hopefully allow you to buy some time while you work out a longer term answer. 

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Guest MormonGator

I don't know much about computer games, but can you play them together, either with or against each other? Even if you don't really want to? 

 

 

 My wife and I play a lot of video games together. Mario Kart is a personal favorite. I'm pretty good at it but I've created a monster-she's outstanding at it! 

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After years in a sexless marriage myself, can I share a few thoughts.

1) I sometimes think that we don't do a very good job in some religious circles of teaching and understanding the importance of the sexual relationship to marriage. We spend a lot of time and effort teaching our youth to say "no" to sexual activity, and fail to help married couples understanding the importance of saying "yes" to sexual activity after marriage. My journey turned around starting with Dr. Harley's "His Needs Her Needs" (see marriagebuilders.com) who was the first marriage commentator who made "sexual fulfillment" an important need. (first because up to that point I took almost all of my "marriage help advice from LDS sources who almost exclusively neglected the sexual relationship). Not only was it listed as important, it was the second chapter in the book, and listed as "his" most important need (in a stereotypical, more men than women expressed this need). In your case, you may not actually decide that sexual fulfillment is your most important need, but it seems that, at least this early in your marriage, you feel real value in it. I do not know what kind of counseling you have been through or what philosophies have been expressed in that counseling. IMO, if your counselors did not try very hard to help your husband see the importance of sexual expression to the overall health of the relationship, keep looking for a counselor who can help your husband understand this.

2) Kind of on the flip side, I will agree with Anatess. You need to be "differentiated" enough (to borrow a term from Dr. David Schnarch) so that your own emotional equilibrium is not dependent on your husband's choices. Learn to manage your own reactions to his video games and sexual refusals so that these do not "define" your relationship.

 

I do not have any real good advice beyond that. A sexless marriage can be a difficult row to hoe (I don't know if you have reached the true "sexless" limit of 10 per year given by most counselors). Dr. Gottman believes that the actual disagreements we have are less important than how we deal with those disagreements. In some way, I expect you, as a couple, will need to figure out these kind of questions to figure out how you will move forward.

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1)   Negotiate with him for naked touching you at least _____x a week.   Just because you don't want to, doesn't mean you don't have a duty to meet the needs of your partner.

 

2)   Is he gay?

 

3)   Is he depressed or addicted to porn or video games?

 

4)   Do both of  you have complete knowledge of how your bodies work?   ("And They Were Not Ashamed" and some other books that are designed for those just starting the intimacy together from and lds perspective.  Deseret Book has some others.  

 

5)   Has he not been able to perform ever?

 

6)   Would he consider a sex therapist?

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Hi there.

 

I have been married for 9 months (in the temple) to a man I've known for almost 7 years now.

 

 

Full stop right there. I'm going to give you some tough love.

 

You might have known him for 7 years, but unless you've been married before-you have no clue how to be a wife-just as much as he has no clue how to be a husband after just 9 months.  And yes I will say just 9 months-b/c it is a drop in the bucket when compared to the entirety of a mortal marriage. After 9 months you are considering divorce? 9 months is barely enough time for a baby to form, 9 months is such a small amount of time. 

 

What did you expect about getting married? You guys would spend the rest of eternity with puppy-dog eyes of love staring at each other for eternity with rainbows and sunshine? You say he is not intimate often; well often many times is in the eye of the beholder; he should be intimate with you but this is what marriage is about working out the differences that two people bring together who come from 2 completely different backgrounds and finding an appropriate compromise. A compromise means everyone wins-and for everyone to win each person has to be willing to let some things go.

 

There are marriages out there that end up being very "easy", IMO I don't think that's the norm-at least in the first several years.

 

I'll ask several questions (b/c I think your problems go beyond just intimacy); just to ponder about. Have you read the Proclamation on the Family? In it is spelled out specifically some of the roles that men and women are designed by our Creator to play. Do you embrace your husbands masculinity and his God-given roles? Husbands by divine decree are primarily the providers in a family-and you and your husband are a family. Do you embrace your divine role as a wife?

 

One of the major issues in today's society is that men have been and are continually being completely emasculated. The message pushed is that women can do it all, they can be a mother, a provider, a homekeeper etc. Men are made fun of and made out to be goofs, video-game playing, beer-drinking sports fanatics.  This mindset pervades TV shows where the Dad or Husband is made fun of-is the brunt of jokes, isn't "with it" or whatever other crap. 50-75 years ago. Husband and Father were revered, it was understood that they had answers to problems had wise responses, were respected.

 

From what you've said, it appears your husband has fallen completely into this trap b/c society has emasculated him and he believes it.

 

You cannot force him to be a husband and force him to fulfill his role; but you can fulfill your role as a wife and as part of that process of becoming a wife (b/c it is a process) and not taking over for him his role as a husband but by allowing him to grow into it - you will get what you want.

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