"Blind" faith

[Guest]

I promise I'm not singling anyone out here, but something I keep hearing lately that concerns me is the term, "blind faith". Usually its connotation is that a person with "blind faith" believes anything told them without question or thought. 

 

Here is what the scriptures say about faith:

 

Romans 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Alma 32:36

36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 17:2

2 And it is by your faith that you shall obtain a view of them, even by that faith which was had by the prophets of old.

 

Ether 12:7

7 For it was by faith that Christ showed himself unto our fathers, after he had risen from the dead; and he showed not himself unto them until after they hadfaith in him; wherefore, it must needs be that some had faith in him, for he showed himself not unto the world.

 

So we see that faith is an essential element of learning, not a substitute for it. It's not a blindness, it's a hope. It's what keeps us going until we know. I think we're seeing an instance of calling "evil good, and good evil". Dissenters take our faith to be a blindness that makes us less intelligent or less correct or something, because we haven't done our due diligence to find out if something is fact. As if the learning of man is superior to the ways of God. It concerns me that this attitude has crept into our ranks. We have and strengthen faith by testing and using it. To diminish and doubt faith is such a mistake, and I'm sure the adversary is delighted to see that faith has almost become a vice and not a virtue in the eyes of many. But faith is a gift, and something that Heavenly Father commands us to develop and is pleased when we put it to work.

 

 

1 Corinthians 12:9

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another thegifts of healing by the same Spirit;

 

Hebrews 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 63:11

11 Yea, signs come by faith, unto mighty works, for without faith no man pleaseth God; and with whom God is angry he is not well pleased; wherefore, unto such he showeth no signs, only in wrath unto their condemnation.

[beefche]

I think the "blind faith" and "sheeple" are used interchangeably. My faith isn't blind and I'm happy to be called a sheep of Jesus.

 

I chose to have faith. I have doubts and I have questions, but I choose to have faith and continue to investigate those doubts and questions. That isn't blind. 

 

And if I seem to fall in line with all the other people of faith, that's fine with me. As I said, I am a sheep of Jesus and I hear His voice.

[Crypto]

Yeah...I don't like being called a sheep[le]. I'm a human not a sheep(le).

I could also work on that pride issue I have

[Anddenex]

Blind faith is an intriguing concept. The proper application of faith is not blind; although, blind faith tends to cause me to remember the scripture Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."  

 

Faith is exhibited when we have an imperfect knowledge of some truth.  The New Testament correlates an imperfect knowledge of truth to substance (i.e. evidence, or assurance), "the substance of things hoped for."  

 

Faith then may root in the evidence, substance, of an individual's testimony, a miracle, through personal study, and through pondering the vastness of space and its genesis.  In this case, faith is not blind.

 

I recently read an article from President Packer who highlighted an experience he had with an atheist.  In short, the atheist eludes to President Packer that it is not possible to "know" anything (especially the existence of God).  Blind faith is a common insult from atheists as it brings comfort to their conscience and personal choices.

 

However, at times, our faith indeed may, in light of lack of evidence, be blind.  To the natural or carnal mind, our dependence upon the Spirit of the Lord would be considered blind.  Wilford Woodruff once shared how he felt the impression of the spirit to move the wagon they were sleeping on.  He moved the wagon.  That night a tree fell and landed exactly where the wagon was previously parked.  What evidence was there to move the wagon?  None.  He moved anyway, and then a witness, evidence, was provided as why to move the wagon, and with this evidence the natural or carnal man would shrug and say, "Coincidence. Luck."

 

A person may also exhibit "blind" faith when following leaders who themselves are blind, in other words those who deny the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Anddenex

[The Folk Prophet]

I'm not sure it's legitimate to call any faith anything other than blind. After all, faith is evidence of things not "seen". But sight isn't the only sense. Just because things aren't "seen" (and therefore, we are, indeed, "blind" in them) doesn't mean they cannot be strongly evidenced by other means.

[priesthoodpower]

D&C 46 - 13 To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

 14 To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.

 

 

...I fit into verse 13, I know that Jesus is our Savior and he lives. It has never been an option for me to have doubts when I have such a firm testimony. However without such a firm knowledge I can see how others have doubts and end up leaving organized religions in general.

Edited October 13, 2015 by priesthoodpower

[Vort]

I'm not sure it's legitimate to call any faith anything other than blind. After all, faith is evidence of things not "seen". But sight isn't the only sense. Just because things aren't "seen" (and therefore, we are, indeed, "blind" in them) doesn't mean they cannot be strongly evidenced by other means.

 

As was pointed out in the latest General Conference, faith is evidence, not mere conjecture or hope. So I would argue it is not "blind", even though it is evidence of things "not seen".

[The Folk Prophet]

As was pointed out in the latest General Conference, faith is evidence, not mere conjecture or hope. So I would argue it is not "blind", even though it is evidence of things "not seen".

 

Not quite the point though. Feeling something is also evidence. So is hearing. So is taste, touch and smell. None of these are seeing though. A blind person, literally, still has great evidence of many things. They're still blind.

 

Obviously any reference to seeing or blindness is figurative when we're talking about faith. My point is, merely, that people want to put a negative spin on the idea of blind faith as a weapon of attack without considering what they're actually saying.

[The Folk Prophet]

Or, another way to put it. "Blind faith" and "faith" mean the exact same thing. Those mocking blind faith are really just mocking faith. If faith isn't "blind", it isn't faith.

[JojoBag]

My faith is not blind.  I already have a testimony of the gospel and when something new comes along, I get a confirmation as to its truth.  The best way to keep from being led blindly is to follow the prophet.  He cannot lead you astray.

Edited October 13, 2015 by JojoBag

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I wonder if the problem is not that we are simply looking at different parts of the elephant (you know like the three blind men...)

 

In a class I'm taking, I just learned that Faith is a spiritual gift (not a trait to be developed).  Honestly that surprised me.  I don't how I missed that before.  Based on threads like this, I think I'm not the only one with that confusion.

 

So if we keep in mind that faith is a gift.  Then it makes sense to me that those who have not yet received that gift would look at others who have it and not fully understand.  Looking at faith from the outside it could seem "blind" and basically, naive.   And people who have that gift may look at others who don't have it (but have other gifts . . . ) as being less faithful.  Either way we are judging one another...one of those natural man traits we need to overcome for sure.  

 

Wouldn't it be awesome if we put aside the natural man and stopped judging one another and just tried supporting one another.  If you have faith or you have other gifts...you are loved by our Father in Heaven.  We are all as children to him....sometimes beautiful little children and sometimes squabbling little children....but the point is to Him we all have a lot more in common than we would like to think.   :)

Edited October 13, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest]

Faith is more than a simple belief.  Belief is an idea.  Faith is motivates action.  It is also that evidence whether physical, spiritual, emotional, or mental that tells us that belief is true or real.

 

The problem comes from focusing on words like “seen” and “blind” and believe faith is meant to help a belief in something physical (like seeing God) when it never meant that.  “Things not seen” refers to that which cannot be seen like a concept, an idea, a value, a goal. 

 

Can you physically “see” or “prove” what Hub McCann says to Walter?

 

     People are basically good.

     Honour, courage, and virtue mean everything

     Power and money mean nothing.

     Good will always triumph over evil.

     True love never dies.

 

Of course not.  These are things that faith tells you are true without physical proof (how could there be?) and that you cannot see (how can you?).

 

When we believe we can make a business work, we find the money, we spend the time & energy because we believe we can and that it will be a good result for us.  Eventually, we find success.  The business works.  And we now have knowledge that we made the business succeed.  We don’t have faith any longer.

 

“Blind Faith” is a modern invention.  It was originated by atheists as a pejorative to accuse people of faith as having rejected reason and physical evidence.  Not true. 

 

It is reason that brings us to believe these things.  And physical evidence only comes after spending the time and energy to realize the belief. 

 

     Ye shall receive a witness AFTER the trial of your faith.

     If any man shall do His will, he shall know of the doctrine.

[The Folk Prophet]

In a class I'm taking, I just learned that Faith is a spiritual gift (not a trait to be developed).  Honestly that surprised me.  I don't how I missed that before.  Based on threads like this, I think I'm not the only one with that confusion.

 

That's because people who think of it as a gift are also confused. It is a gift. But it is a gift that is free for the taking by anyone who so chooses. Having faith is a choice.

[The Folk Prophet]

 believe faith is meant to help a belief in something physical (like seeing God) when it never meant that.  “Things not seen” refers to that which cannot be seen like a concept, an idea, a value, a goal. 

 

This is not completely true or accurate. You're taking a part and claiming it to be the whole. When we read about faith in the various scriptures that teach on it, it very plainly speaks of things like seeing God as related to faith. Like:

 

Ether 12:

19 And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad.

 

20 And behold, we have seen in this record that one of these was the brother of Jared; for so great was his faith in God, that when God put forth his finger he could not hide it from the sight of the brother of Jared, because of his word which he had spoken unto him, which word he had obtained by faith.

 

21 And after the brother of Jared had beheld the finger of the Lord, because of the promise which the brother of Jared had obtained by faith, the Lord could not withhold anything from his sight; wherefore he showed him all things, for he could no longer be kept without the veil.

[Traveler]

Let us not confuse faith.  It is not an act of faith to act contrary to evidence.  Faith in something that is not true is the heart and core of what is meant by blind faith.  Many argue that faith is something contrary to any and all evidence - I do not understand this to be true faith or faith in truth.  Faith is not acting contrary to evidence but rather using the evidence we have and reaching for truth beyond that evidence we have that generates unyielding proof.

 

I have experienced faith in things that turned out to be false.  Faith is not always a good thing - it is only good when we have faith in something that is true.  And like any effort to find truth - we must be willing to abandon the things of faith that yield things that are not true otherwise our faith is a lie.

[Guest]

You're taking a part and claiming it to be the whole.

 

When we read about faith in the various scriptures that teach on it, it very plainly speaks of things like seeing God as related to faith...

 

 

First statement.  Nope.

 

Second statement.  Your very example confirms what I said.  Mahonri had never actually seen God until his FAITH was so exceedingly strong that he could not be kept from within the veil.

 

Give any other example and we'll see if that first statement is true or not.  EVERY time anyone has seen God it has been AFTER the trial of faith.

 

Nowhere in scripture that I'm aware of is faith equated with actually seeing.  We only see AFTER the trial of our faith.  Show me where I'm wrong and I'll recant.

[Guest]

OH!! I get it.  Yeah.  Poor wording on my part.  I jumped ahead in my thoughts a few steps.

 

"Faith is the evidence of things not seen" is the phrase atheists use to show that God is only seen through suspension of reason and ignoring evidence.  i.e. They equate "faith in God" as the only "seeing God" that has ever occurred.  So, in truth, no one has ever actually seen God.  They only think they have and call it "faith".

 

My point was that God has placed himself in a position that no one can see him physically through man-made means.  He does this so we can develop faith in Him.  Once we have developed sufficient faith, we will eventually be allowed to see him physically.  This is not proven through physical means that can be shared with others.  But the physical reality is proven to us after the trial of our faith.

 

Better?

Edited October 13, 2015 by Guest

[Blackmarch]

blind faith is better than no faith.

[Vort]

I have experienced faith in things that turned out to be false.  Faith is not always a good thing - it is only good when we have faith in something that is true.  And like any effort to find truth - we must be willing to abandon the things of faith that yield things that are not true otherwise our faith is a lie.

 

In most cases, faith is defined as belief in an unknown BUT TRUE thing. Thus, by definition, it is impossible to have faith in something false.

 

That may or may not impact your point, but I thought it worth bringing up.

[The Folk Prophet]

I personally have come to believe that faith has very little to do with belief. In point of fact, you can exercise faith in something that you do not, for sure, believe in.

 

Faith has much more to do with words like trust, commitment, determination, loyalty.

Edited October 13, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

That's because people who think of it as a gift are also confused. It is a gift. But it is a gift that is free for the taking by anyone who so chooses. Having faith is a choice.

 

I used to think that too, but I was mistaken.  As I said, this understanding that faith is a gift is new to me as well. 

 

The people who I'm referring to that said Faith is a gift are not confused. Trust me.   :)

 

You can't just take a gift for the wanting of it.  A gift is something willingly given in this case by Heavenly Father.  We should all seek it, but it is a gift.  I'm thinking that as a gift Heavenly Father might make some stretch more for it than others (for their own benefit).  That's why I was saying we shouldn't judge one another regarding our faith or lack thereof.  

 

But to be more clear...here is my "source".  The bold is my addition.

 

"A disciple recognizes that faith in the Savior is a spiritual gift and appropriately seeks for that gift in his or her life. Faith is not a trait to be developed or a reward to be earned. Rather, it is a gift we receive from God. Scriptural synonyms for faith include trust, confidence, and reliance. Thus, the spiritual gift of faith enables us to trust in Christ and to have confidence in His power to cleanse, to renew, to redeem, and to strengthen us. Faith means we are beginning to rely upon His merits, mercy, and grace (2 Nephi 2:8; 31:19; Moroni 6:4). Indeed, you and I have a responsibility to properly seek after this gift; and we must do all that we can do to qualify for the gift of faith. Ultimately, however, the gift is bestowed upon us by a loving and caring God. Elder James E. Talmage indicated in his classic book The Articles of Faith that faith is a gift from God.

‘Though within the reach of all who diligently strive to gain it, faith is nevertheless a divine gift [and can be obtained only from God (see Matthew 16:17; John 6:44, 65; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 12:9; Romans 12:3; Moroni 10:11)]. As is fitting for so priceless a pearl, it is given to those only who show by their sincerity that they are worthy of it, and who give promise of abiding by its dictates.

‘... No compulsion is used in bringing men to a knowledge of God; yet, as fast as we open our hearts to the influences of righteousness, the faith that leads to life eternal will be given us of our Father.’ (The Articles of Faith, pp. 107)

“President Joseph F. Smith also has taught:

‘Faith is always a gift of God to man, which is obtained by obedience, as all other blessings are. (Gospel Doctrine, pp. 212)

‘... faith does not come without works; faith does not come without obedience to the commandments of God.’ (Conference Report, October 1903, pp. 4)"

Elder David A. Bednar  

http://www2.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2004_08_31_BednarDavid.htm

 

Edited to make the sourcing more clear :)

Edited October 13, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[The Folk Prophet]

 

I used to think that too, but I was mistaken.  As I said, this understanding that faith is a gift is new to me as well. 

 

The people who I'm referring to that said Faith is a gift are not confused. Trust me.   :)

 

 

 

I didn't say faith was not a gift. Maybe you should re-read my comment more carefully. You quoted it, so I'm not sure how you missed it. But I'll re-quote this sentence in full with no editing:

 

It is a gift.

 

You can't just take a gift for the wanting of it. 

 

Yes you can. God has already given it and we may all take it for the wanting. Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it shall be opened unto you.

[The Folk Prophet]

Maybe this will help:

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/10/faith-is-not-by-chance-but-by-choice?lang=eng

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Maybe this will help:

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/10/faith-is-not-by-chance-but-by-choice?lang=eng

 

I understood you just fine.  I think you didn't understand me.  The parts I highlighted should clear up any confusion.   But apparently not.  Oh well, I tried. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[Blackmarch]

Blind faith is when you have to take a step in a direction where you can't see the path of where you're going. Sooner or later everyone comes to that situation.