Grand Theft Auto and Parenting

[Ironhold]

I'm pretty sure I was playing "Doom" and "Doom II" as far back as the 5th or 6th grade.

My older brothers (high school) had a copy on their computer, and I started playing it after seeing them play it.

The agreement was that I'd do a level or two to vent steam from school that day, and then I'd get on my homework.

[Guest]

I am a huge fan of SOCOM, Metal Gear Solid 3, the Tom Clancy games, and Unit 13.  I think that first person shooters are fine as long as the gore is not out of control.  Gears of War is about the cutoff point for me, and I will only play Borderlands 2 on my PS Vita with the gore turned off (not that the PS Vita version has much gore to begin with).  To me, first person shooter games that aren't too gory are just like playing virtual paintball or laser tag.  I am far more offended by the violence I see on the Simpsons' Itchy and Scratchy than I am by the violence in your typical first person shooter.

 

That said, I do have a problem with Grand Theft Auto, partially because of the sexual content, partially because it is simulated evil, and partially because it portrays violence against innocent people.  That is not OK (and I believe that it was condemned a few years back by at least one general authority).  I also don't like games that take the gore to the extreme (e.g., any of the 3D Mortal Kombat games).

 

Anyhow, my two cents on the subject.

[jerome1232]

Oh my. No one should play that game at any age. I'm a pretty pro video game guy. Heck I think between TV watching and video game playing video gaming is the superior recreational activity with way more potential.

Also, someone mentioned Zelda and no violence. Link is a freaking chicken torturer/slayer extreme. That game is famous for it! I can't count the number of hordes of chickens I have taken on in Link to the Past.

Edited November 3, 2015 by jerome1232

[Backroads]

Also, someone mentioned Zelda and no violence. Link is a freaking chicken toroturer/slayer extreme. That game is famous for it! I can't count the number of hordes of chickens I have taken on in Link to the Past.

 

But have you seen the violence the chickens give in return if you just happen to accidentally slay a few too many? So much for those fouls turning the other cheek.

 

In other news, this thread makes me indeed feel bad about my Skyrim times when I go full vampire. I once wiped out an entire village.

[Guest MormonGator]

But have you seen the violence the chickens give in return if you just happen to accidentally slay a few too many? So much for those fouls turning the other cheek.

 

In other news, this thread makes me indeed feel bad about my Skyrim times when I go full vampire. I once wiped out an entire village.

 Don't worry Backroads. When I blow up Megaton in Fallout I feel the same. 

[Bini]

I'm a big fan of The Elder Scrolls series, The Witcher series, and Dragon Age series. They're rated Mature and I think it's an appropriate rating for them due to violence, language, and sexuality. But depending on the version you get, or the mods you install, all three series do incorporate extremely graphic nudity and sex acts, which easily push the boundaries of a mature rating.

[Ironhold]

But have you seen the violence the chickens give in return if you just happen to accidentally slay a few too many? So much for those fouls turning the other cheek.

In the "Link's Awakening" Game Boy game, if you attack a chicken then the chicken will respond by going after you until you leave the screen or you're dead.

[Guest MormonGator]

In the "Link's Awakening" Game Boy game, if you attack a chicken then the chicken will respond by going after you until you leave the screen or you're dead.

 Ironhold gets +5 points from me. I love that game, still play it all the time. 

 

[Guest]

This is not a game but an Anime...

 

My sons got me hooked on Attack on Titan.  It is quite... uhm... bloody and violent.  I was shocked the first time they showed it to me... WHAT ARE MY KIDS WATCHING???  UGH!  My boys are like... boy stuff.  My husband, of course, is like - it's fine... it's harmless.  And, of course, I defer to him in these matters.  I sat with them for like, the first 2 episodes and... a few weeks later... we finished the 3rd season and is working through the prequel.  The dialogue is grrrroooaaann... like a lot of anime... and the graphics is... blech, yuck, ugh... but there's something about that story that is intriguing.

 

By the way, my kids got into it because my piano playing kid loves the intro song.

[Ironhold]

This is not a game but an Anime...

 

My sons got me hooked on Attack on Titan.  It is quite... uhm... bloody and violent.  I was shocked the first time they showed it to me... WHAT ARE MY KIDS WATCHING???  UGH!  My boys are like... boy stuff.  My husband, of course, is like - it's fine... it's harmless.  And, of course, I defer to him in these matters.  I sat with them for like, the first 2 episodes and... a few weeks later... we finished the 3rd season and is working through the prequel.  The dialogue is grrrroooaaann... like a lot of anime... and the graphics is... blech, yuck, ugh... but there's something about that story that is intriguing.

 

By the way, my kids got into it because my piano playing kid loves the intro song.

Yeah.

For some reason, AoT is one of the hottest properties on both sides of the Pacific right now. The manga is a blockbuster, the anime is a hit, and the first two live-action movies were successfully screened in theaters the world over. We've even got an alternate-reality spin-off going in which everyone's in a normal high school.

It's astoundingly bloody and violent, such that it's on par with some of the Dungeons & Dragons campaigns I've played. Given this, it's not for the faint of heart.

[SpiritDragon]

 That's awesome. As kids, we played Mario, Zelda, and sports games. No violence or vulgarity at all. I can't imagine what these kids are going to turn out like. 

 

I rarely play any video games any more. Usually I'll play a little bit of curling on the wii with my wife around Christmas.

 

Back in the day though I loved Zelda - the original NES version was as hard as could be, and I'd get stuck in those darn magic mazes forever - they just don't make games like that anymore. I also loved the SNES Zelda - A Link to the Past. I agree with the comments about those dangerous chickens... what kid didn't try to kill one though :) It makes me want to dig out the SNES over the Christmas break and push through once more. However I might suck myself into my all time fav - Final Fantasy 3 (or six if you're like that - it's 3 to me). I mean it is like reading an adventure book that you're part of. What other game can boast making you learn the lines to the song in an opera of all things in addition to the other fun.

 

Now for the kicker - with Super Mario and Zelda being mentioned - did any one else wake up before the chickens to watch mario 3 and legend of Zelda cartoons? My brother used to get me up at 5:30 in the morning to watch our nintendo cartoons. It was painful to get up so early, but it was worth it in my seven year old mind.

[Guest]

Yeah.

For some reason, AoT is one of the hottest properties on both sides of the Pacific right now. The manga is a blockbuster, the anime is a hit, and the first two live-action movies were successfully screened in theaters the world over. We've even got an alternate-reality spin-off going in which everyone's in a normal high school.

It's astoundingly bloody and violent, such that it's on par with some of the Dungeons & Dragons campaigns I've played. Given this, it's not for the faint of heart.

 

I can't really complain much... my siblings and cousins grew up on Shaolin Temple (live action Chinese TV show and very bloody) and we all turned out fine.  But, of course, that's not a good reason for my kids to be watching that stuff.  I hope my husband knows what he's doing because I sure don't.

Edited November 25, 2015 by anatess

[Ironhold]

I can't really complain much... my siblings and cousins grew up on Shaolin Temple (live action Chinese TV show and very bloody) and we all turned out fine.  But, of course, that's not a good reason for my kids to be watching that stuff.  I hope my husband knows what he's doing because I sure don't.

It's been my experience that the biggest determining factor is parental involvement.

In essence, when stuff like this comes on, you give the kids a debriefing in order to ensure that:

1. They understand it's all fiction

2. The content isn't affecting them in a negative fashion

3. They don't intend to emulate the more violent aspects of the show.

I grew up in the 1980s, so that should tell you the kind of entertainment media I had at my disposal. Daily syndicated cartoons alone, if the "think of the children!" types are to be believed, should have permanently ruined me.

[Guest]

It's been my experience that the biggest determining factor is parental involvement.

In essence, when stuff like this comes on, you give the kids a debriefing in order to ensure that:

1. They understand it's all fiction

2. The content isn't affecting them in a negative fashion

3. They don't intend to emulate the more violent aspects of the show.

I grew up in the 1980s, so that should tell you the kind of entertainment media I had at my disposal. Daily syndicated cartoons alone, if the "think of the children!" types are to be believed, should have permanently ruined me.

 

And we just finished 9 episodes of One Man Punch.  What in the world is going on in Japan?  Hah hah.

 

Yeah, my kids are well-grounded when it comes to violence - they've been going to a Martial Arts School for almost 8 years.  They train self-control and self-discipline and the mastery of the body and force and all that stuff.  But you know, they're teen-agers now.  They are starting to pull away from me a bit.  They don't feel the need to tell me everything anymore.  That's the interesting thing about parenting.  We never really know if we did things right until we see what kind of adults they turn out to be - and by then it's too late to fix it.

[Ironhold]

And we just finished 9 episodes of One Man Punch.  What in the world is going on in Japan?  Hah hah.

Warning: Long post ahead.

What most people don't realize is that in Japan, you can find anime for every genre and every age. As such, "anime" runs the gamut. At one end of the spectrum, we have kid-friendly titles like "Hamtaro" and "Mon Colle Knights". At the other end of the spectrum, we have hard-core porn (known as "hentai"), some of which I understand have been banned in different countries.

Furthermore, Japanese television operates far differently than most Western television outlets. Japan uses seasons known as "cours" when planning television shows. Each cour is 13 weeks, roughly corresponding to a given season (spring, summer, fall, winter). Why is this important? Japan doesn't normally rebroadcast episodes. Once an episode of a show airs, that's it; if you miss it, then you've got to wait for the home video release or for someone to put the episode online. What's more, a lot of shows are only given a single cour at a time. Put this all together, and we can literally have about 50+ anime shows debuting or broadcasting subsequent seasons in a single year.

From there, we have anime intended for theatrical release. Some of these theatrical releases are stand-alone works, such as the various Studio Ghibli films. Others are meant to tie into an existing franchise; for example, the Pokemon franchise generally gets 3 - 4 theatrical releases per "region" that the main characters are travelling through.

On top of that, the 1980s saw the rise of Original Video Animation (OVA / OAV are both used). This term is used to describe features that go direct-to-video. In some instances, these are shows that couldn't originally get enough traction for television broadcast, if they were even put forth for television broadcast; some franchises, like the "Tenchi" and "El Hazard" franchise, do so well as direct releases that they're eventually given the chance to broadcast on television (although the television series and the direct-to-video series are generally different "continuities", meaning "mostly the same characters, but entirely different stories"). In other instances, these represent subsequent installments of once-popular television series that either could not get renewed for another season or were not put forward for another season, such as "Irresonsible Captain Tylor" and "Fushigi Yugi". We also have situations in which the direct release is essentially a more traditional direct-to-video movie, such as "Tokyo Vice", albeit with a run time too short to qualify for a feature film. However, a lot of these direct releases contain content that the production team knows well ahead of time won't make it past broadcast censors; these can be titles that push the boundaries like "M. D. Geist" or even the aforementioned hentai.

Put it all together, and you literally have hundreds of anime titles coming out of Japan each year.

Not to mention live-action adaptations thereof.

In the early and mid 2000s, we had a slew of companies shot-gunning anime to Western audiences. Saban. 4Kids!. ADV. Central Park Media. Manga Entertainment. Right Stuf. Software Sculptors. Funimation. Media Blasters. Bandai. Pioneer. DiC. Nelvana. Tokyopop. Disney. World Events Productions. Et cetra. But even this only eventually represented a small fraction of what was coming out of Japan each year. These companies simply couldn't dub and distribute anime fast enough to do more than scratch the surface. They got the popular titles, a number of "cult" titles, and a few of the more obscure ones that they were able to locate. But that was it.

Thing is, the recession caused a crash in the global anime market as luxury spending of all sorts went down and foreign exchange rates went pear-shaped. Subsequent factors, such as the bankruptcy of Borders bookstores, International Channel going off-the-air, FYE / Suncoast Entertainment's ongoing financial troubles, the decision to cease broadcasting non-educational cartoons in America, Fox's disastrous divestment to Disney, and Cartoon Network's sudden allergy to anime all conspired to blow a hole in the anime industry.

Several anime importers just in America & Canada were forced into bankruptcy, with only a handful actually emerging. Others either quit dealing in anime, or found themselves living off of their past archives and not bothering to handle anything new. Some multi-nationals were either locked out or were forced to use local firms as middlemen. This means that we have even fewer companies importing anime nowadays, making for an even smaller fraction of titles coming over.

In that sense, it's not fair to lay the blame for everything on Japan itself. There are simply too many titles competing for too few import companies.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Ironhold
took out names of porn movies

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm currently playing Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga for my GBA. Outstanding game. 

I'll take those any day over GTA, and I'm in my mid 30's. 

[copic_crack]

I think it's just a general ignorance that a lot of people have for the medium. There's the same thing with the comic book genre. 

Many people don't follow game development or play games themselves. Maybe their only experience with games was when they were kids at the arcade, etc, etc.

The same thing goes with comic books. People unfamiliar with comic assume that it's a cartoon, which means it's for kids. Nothing can be further from the truth. This was probably why lots of parents brought their kids to see Deadpool, even with R rating and were surprised when there was adult content.

Overall, I think people need to start understanding that comics and games are artistic mediums like books and films, rather than just lump it all as "kids stuff". 

[Blackmarch]

On October 28, 2015 at 11:22 AM, MormonGator said:

I am not a parent, but what kind of parent lets their teenage child play such a vile game? 

 

 

It's all over Facebook that a 15 (!) year old "convinced" his father to let him buy this. I can't imagine letting a 15 year old play this! 

 

I'm a video game junkie, but this is absurd. Thoughts would be welcome. 

Why, because as a culture weve been indoctrinated with the extreme form of what we take in, what we think, what we say, has zero influence on what we do.

[Guest MormonGator]

14 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

Why, because as a culture weve been indoctrinated with the extreme form of what we take in, what we think, what we say, has zero influence on what we do.

I don't know. I go back and forth. Sure, it looks bad, I guess. But everyone tends to think their culture is the worst, Godless culture the world ever saw. Who knows? 

 

[LeSellers]

14 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

Why, because as a culture weve been indoctrinated with the extreme form of what we take in, what we think, what we say, has zero influence on what we do.

GTA and other "games" of this ilk don't seem to be anything other than Xxxxxx simulators. Airlines and the military (among a  host of others) spend millions billions of dollars on equipment to train soldiers, pilots, etc., to do their jobs without the airplane, rocket, or whatever. The result, they claim, is nearly identical to "live fire" exercises. The military has a recruiting game on the 'net to entice young men into enlisting. It works.

How is it that people can say, with a straight face, that GTA doesn't affect the "players"?

Lehi

[Guest MormonGator]

21 hours ago, LeSellers said:

How is it that people can say, with a straight face, that GTA doesn't affect the "players"?

 

Very easily. Children playing the game is one thing, grown ups who can separate fiction from nonfiction is different. If GTA was as influential on it's adult (key word, adult) fans, we'd have a much, much much more violent society than we already do. 

That doesn't mean I enjoy them-I don't. That doesn't mean an LDS should play them (I'm agnostic on that issue in the long run). 

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by MormonGator

[Ironhold]

On 6/10/2016 at 11:40 AM, MormonGator said:

Very easily. Children playing the game is one thing, grown ups who can separate fiction from nonfiction is different. If GTA was as influential on it's adult (key word, adult) fans, we'd have a much, much much more violent society than we already do. 

That doesn't mean I enjoy them-I don't. That doesn't mean an LDS should play them (I'm agnostic on that issue in the long run). 

 

Thing is, a lot of people who do violent video games do them to *relieve* negative emotions. If they get frustrated, angry, or what have you, they go take it out on non-existent zombies. Back when I was in junior high, it was pretty well understood that once I got home I'd go into the back and play a level or two of "Doom" until I had chilled out enough to be civil again; it was often frustrating dealing with some of the teachers and classmates I had at the time, and so I needed some space to vent. 

In that sense, we need to sit down and figure out why people do things instead of just jumping to conclusions. 

[Guest MormonGator]

6 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Thing is, a lot of people who do violent video games do them to *relieve* negative emotions. If they get frustrated, angry, or what have you, they go take it out on non-existent zombies. Back when I was in junior high, it was pretty well understood that once I got home I'd go into the back and play a level or two of "Doom" until I had chilled out enough to be civil again; it was often frustrating dealing with some of the teachers and classmates I had at the time, and so I needed some space to vent. 

In that sense, we need to sit down and figure out why people do things instead of just jumping to conclusions. 

I'm sure that happens, but it doesn't effect them in the real world. GTA is played by millions and millions of adults. How come so little of them go postal in the real world?  

[anatess2]

6 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Thing is, a lot of people who do violent video games do them to *relieve* negative emotions. If they get frustrated, angry, or what have you, they go take it out on non-existent zombies. Back when I was in junior high, it was pretty well understood that once I got home I'd go into the back and play a level or two of "Doom" until I had chilled out enough to be civil again; it was often frustrating dealing with some of the teachers and classmates I had at the time, and so I needed some space to vent. 

In that sense, we need to sit down and figure out why people do things instead of just jumping to conclusions. 

I like to promote Martial Arts for kids and adults alike.  Negative emotions gets left right there on the mat.  And, you just might get a good beating that humbles you out of your piss off.  My 150lb 14-year-old just submitted his 220lb dad in jiujitsu last week because my husband was upset with work stuff and thought he can muscle through the roll... my son was sharp enough to notice his dad's brain was fogged up and took advantage using his better flexibility and speed.  Sobered my husband right quick.

[Blackmarch]

On June 9, 2016 at 1:13 PM, MormonGator said:

I don't know. I go back and forth. Sure, it looks bad, I guess. But everyone tends to think their culture is the worst, Godless culture the world ever saw. Who knows? 

 

Baby steps over multiple generations. You dont turn a person 180 degrees... Just one degree.

Not sayin its the worst or best, just that you can't get into a river and not get affected by the flow.

no it wont make you into a psycopath, but the people ive watched over the years are more willing to put up with  and be entertained by crudity, swear more, angry more, having thoughts, or solutions that involve force have a tendency to show up on the list or higher up on the list, than before. 

Secondly if you are entertained by something it becomes harder to condemn that thing... And then association starts creeping in.

Then once you hit a point the spirit leaves.