Clearing up misconceptions: Galatians1 6-9 VS TBOM

[Byron]

Hi there. Unlike my previous posts where I had heard gossip from others and wanted to find the truth. This topic is one I found myself while reading the bible several years ago. So my question on this is quite personal. I know I made an attempt at the question previously but after reading many of your comments to other queries I wanted to be more accurate and concise so that the question does not get lost amid semantics.

 

 

Galatians1 6-9:

 

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

 

 

The word "gospel" comes from ancient Greek meaning "good news".

 

 

My question is two-fold:

 

 

1) Does TBOM preach the "Good News" of Christ?

 

2) If it does how do you rationalize this?

 

 

 

 

[Just_A_Guy]

1. Yes.

2. I don't understand your question. Surely you aren't suggesting that once one author/missionary/prophet has taught the gospel, other authors/missionaries/prophets are divinely enjoined from repeating, expanding, or clarifying that message?

[Byron]

@Just_a_Guy

 

If you agree that the BOM is indeed the 'cursed' book mentioned in Galatians, I wanted to know how you rationalize that TBOM is from God?

 

Do you ignore This one passage? If so, how much of God's word (in the bible) do you believe is the truth?

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't see how the Book of Mormon's preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ makes it subject to Paul's cursing.

Also, please note that I did *not* "agree that the BOM is indeed the 'cursed' book mentioned in Galatians". Please be very, very careful about putting words in our mouths; your doing so--even inadvertently--may incline most of your Mormon audience to assume you are part of that class of critics who are more about "gotcha!" moments than sincere dialogue. :)

Edited November 2, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

Despite my impatience and irritation with your leading questions, I am going to jump in.

 

First of all, let's use the text from the King James version. That is the translation we use. Others change wording and sometimes obscure things. 

 

 

 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

 

So what I'm reading there is that anyone who preaches a Gospel different that Christ is cursed. It says nothing about another book, just another Gospel. The prophets in the Book of Mormon and, of course, Christ himself, taught the same things as Christ taught in His earthly ministry. Have you read the subtitle to the Book of Mormon? Another Testament of Jesus Christ. 

 

Another of your threads had some excellent advice from prisonchaplain, a member here who is not LDS. He suggested that you read our Articles of Faith. For this thread, pay special attention to #8: "We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far is it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

[Vort]

@Just_a_Guy

 

If you agree that the BOM is indeed the 'cursed' book mentioned in Galatians, I wanted to know how you rationalize that TBOM is from God?

 

This is false. JAG neither agreed with your gloss of the Galatians verse under inspection nor agreed that your gloss of the verse referred to the Book of Mormon.

 

If you want us to take you seriously, you must speak in good faith and avoid such wild mischaracterizations as you present above. We might assume (for a while) that you're merely misguided or excitable, but after a while we will lose confidence that you are sincere. Please give us reason to consider you a friend and brother and not a troll.

[Vort]

My question is two-fold:

 

1) Does TBOM preach the "Good News" of Christ?

 

2) If it does how do you rationalize this? 

 

The Book of Mormon preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ -- the same as preached in the Bible. How, then, do you see this as a violation of Paul's teachings, Byron?

[Byron]

_{Hmmm. Let me try and break the passage down. perhaps we can clear up the misunderstanding:}

 

 

_{6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel}

 

 

_{Is the BOM a different gospel? If so:}

 

_{7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.}

 

_{And the result of this:}

 

_{8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!}

 

_{And just to empathize the importance of the message it is restated:}

 

_{9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!}

 

 

_{You have agreed that The BOM preaches the Gospel of Christ. If the BOM preaches the Gospel of Christ but the BOM is not the Gospel which was written in the Bible, then is it not the "different Gospel" Paul warns us about?}

[Guest]

Did Paul say, "The Gospel that is in the NIV translation of the New Testament", or did he say "the Gospel of Christ"?

[Byron]

@Vort As a reminder, I have not attacked you personally, despite your numerous personal attacks against me (veiled or otherwise) Instead I am turning the other cheek, however I feel it important to let you know that the offense is noted.

 

I am asking questions. If you feel the nature of my questioning is underhanded, then by all means ignore my questions and report the post.

 

As for your rationale, I am assuming you are frustrated over having to defend your faith in the past. I assure you I mean no slight but rather seek to understand what and how you believe.

 

I hope we can continue to explore this and other questions in a civil manner.

[Guest]

How is using a version of the Bible that someone translated to "modern" language any less a "different Gospel" than the Book of Mormon teaching the same things Christ taught in His earthly ministry?

[Byron]

@Eowyn would you seek to dismiss all translations of the bible in order to keep the BOM in good standing... Refer to Solomon and the two women who argued over ownership of a baby.

[Guest]

I didn't say that, and you didn't answer my question.

[Vort]

You have agreed that The BOM preaches the Gospel of Christ. If the BOM preaches the Gospel of Christ but the BOM is not the Gospel which was written in the Bible, then is it not the "different Gospel" Paul warns us about?

 

No. The Book of Mormon is the gospel preached in the Bible.

[Vort]

@Vort As a reminder, I have not attacked you personally, despite your numerous personal attacks against me (veiled or otherwise) Instead I am turning the other cheek, however I feel it important to let you know that the offense is noted.

 

I am asking questions. If you feel the nature of my questioning is underhanded, then by all means ignore my questions and report the post.

 

As for your rationale, I am assuming you are frustrated over having to defend your faith in the past. I assure you I mean no slight but rather seek to understand what and how you believe.

 

I hope we can continue to explore this and other questions in a civil manner.

 

Excellent. If you are sincere, then I expect that means you will no longer ask leading questions, gloss scripture in a forced and absurd way, or misquote what others such as JAG have written.

 

Under such conditions, I look forward to continued dialog with you.

[prisonchaplain]

None of this has to be complicated.  First, it is possible, but unlikely that Paul is referring to the four gospels in the NT canon, which would make the BOM "another gospel."  However, given that the NT was not yet canonized, it is more likely that Paul was referring to different gospel teaching--teaching opposed to that of the Apostles.  Paul's letters offer a few examples of such--pre-Gnostic teachings, Judaizers, etc.  So, in order to accuse the BoM of being counter to the gospel taught by the apostles one would have to address specific teachings.  That would be a difficult discussion to have, without violating TOS.  It might be wiser to choose an LDS doctrine, rooted in the BoM, that raises questions...and simply ask those questions, to seek clarification. 

[Ironhold]

Tell me -

Revelation 14:6, KJV

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

If any angels bringing a gospel are supposed to be suspect, then who is the angel John saw?

[Guest]

What about this from John, chapter 21?

 

 

 

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

[Byron]

@ Ironhold, the keyword there is "everlasting" being that only God is everlasting, so too would his word be.

 

@prisonchaplin, Thank you. I had suspicions similar to this, but contrary to certain accusations I am trying not to ask leading questions.

 

Just for clarity, are you saying that the scripture was only validated once canonized? I do agree that with the lack of all the writings in the bible yet to be collected and categorized at the time it is quite possible that Paul was only referring to the 4 witness accounts of Jesus' life. (i.e. the Gospels).

But then I have to know, would that then not invalidate Paul's own writings?

[Byron]

@eowyn, sorry, It seems that in your second and third last posts you were trying to enforce the BOM's validity by invalidating translations of the Bible.

If I am incorrect please clarify.

[Guest]

No one is claiming his writings or anything in the Bible are invalidated. Just that we don't think it says what you think it says.

[mordorbund]

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!"

 

My understanding of your reading of these verses means that if another gospel shows up - even if it professes to be Christ's gospel, even if the message and teachings therein match the message and teachings of canonized biblical gospels - then that gospel is a cursed book!

 

I hope you can see that this is not what Paul was saying, because by including himself as a possible source (the "we" emphasized above), he has removed Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Thessalonians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, and Hebrews - half the New Testament!

 

Can you clarify what would make a book qualify as "another gospel"?

Edited November 2, 2015 by mordorbund

[Guest]

Usually conversations go two ways. Both sides ask and answer questions. Are you going to be answering any questions, or just asking?

[Byron]

@Eowyn I am sure you can understand that I will not respond to insults or slanderous remarks. To these I have already comment and needn't say more "Let a yes be a yes and a no be a no and anything else be evil"

 

However to your question, I am not sure the meaning, please clarify.

[Guest]

You've been asked for your interpretations of two different scriptures, to begin with.

 

Do you not understand that we see many of your questions to be insulting or libelous? You expect us to answer, but you won't answer back with the "challenging questions" we pose?