Bishop submissions rejected by the First Presidency

[Guest]

If I get called as Primary president, I'll be asked to prayerfully submit names for counselors. Let's say I do that. . . I look over the ward list, ponder, pray, and do my very best to come up with some names with the influence of the Holy Ghost. I submit those names to the bishopric, and they in turn pray about whether those people should be called as my counselors. Assume that these are worthy women who, on paper, should be qualified to fill the calling. However, the bishopric might be restrained by the Spirit and ask me to come up with different names. Maybe for reasons they know better than I do, and maybe for reasons only known to Heavenly Father. They don't have to know everything about everyone. If they did, they'd have no need for revelation or promptings from the Holy Ghost. 

 

 

 

Lets not kid ourselves and think that a GA ponders the names of a bunch of strangers/people he has no association with and gets some flash of enlightenment about who is worthy and who is not. 

 

I absolutely wouldn't rule out a GA pondering over who should be the leader of a ward and a judge in Israel. Again, even if they don't know the people personally, they are entitled to inspiration from the Holy Ghost by virtue of the mantle of their calling. And again, at that stage it is not about worthiness, it's about who the Lord wants to lead that ward at that time. 

As an aside, I don't believe any of the GA's see us as strangers. Have you ever had a leadership calling? Something miraculous happens. You are blessed with a love for those under your stewardship, whether you "know" them or not. 

[omegaseamaster75]

Right... lets not kid ourselves that the Church Leader do their jobs... and seek out guidance from God.

They do their jobs but by the time a name makes it to salt lake all of the praying etc has been done. 

 

Do you also think that the prophet calls every missionary? This is a serious question.

[estradling75]

They do their jobs but by the time a name makes it to salt lake all of the praying etc has been done. 

 

Do you also think that the prophet calls every missionary? This is a serious question.

 

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

 

I believe every missionary is called by those who are in authority.  And those who are in authority are doing their job to seek and receive revelation, so that will of God is known. 

[omegaseamaster75]

So your not going to answer the question?

[estradling75]

So your not going to answer the question?

 

What part of "Missionary are Called by those in Authority" was unclear?

[Guest]

They do their jobs but by the time a name makes it to salt lake all of the praying etc has been done. 

 

Do you also think that the prophet calls every missionary? This is a serious question.

 

1) Yes, the prophet calls every missionary in a sense.  He's given a list of names every week.  He prays personally over that list.  And he has made changes to said list (very rarely) because he is inspired to do so.

 

2) No, it is repeated at every level.  

 

One stake I moved into had a fireside to announce the new ward boundaries.  They testified to us that it was indeed the Lord's will that these boundaries were set.  How?

 

    a) They were told to set the new limits, so they did what they thought would make appropriate boundaries.  That plan was submitted and rejected.

    b) They set it up again.  But this time, they figured that "The Brethren" wanted certain features of personnel as well as other features.  So they set it up the way they thought The Brethren wanted it.  That plan was submitted and rejected.

    c) Finally, the Stake Pres told the bishops and the high council that they needed to repent.  We wanted it one way.  We thought the brethren wanted it another way.  We have not truly asked the Lord how HE wants it.  They prayed for inspiration & guidance.  They carefully listened to set out the new boundaries.  They prayed some more.  Eventually, they put together the plan that they truly felt inspired to put together.  It was submitted and accepted.

 

So, let's not kid ourselves and believe that the 5th article of faith only refers to the priesthood.

Let's not kid ourselves and believe that the 9th article of faith only refers to scriptures.

 

We believe in continuing revelation.  We believe in inspired leadership.  Let's act like it.

[omegaseamaster75]

 

Do you also think that the prophet calls every missionary? 

 

So you don't think that the prophet calls every missionary? I have to read between the lines because I thought I framed the question as a yes or no type question. In fairness we probably agree on the answer. My overriding point is that like it or not there is a bureaucracy in the church of sorts and it comes into play with these bigger callings. 

 

While we would like to think that divine inspiration is still in play when a name goes to salt lake as a submission to be bishop I would harbor a guess that the name gets a through scrub/ background check. 

 

for example have they ever been arrested? do they file a timely tax return? do they owe back taxes? have they ever filed for bankruptcy? the list can go on and on, and any single item probably won't disqualify them but a couple of hits might. 

[Guest]

So you don't think that the prophet calls every missionary? 

 

OK.  I see what happened.  My fault.  I switched the answers around.  Please go and look at my last post.  

 

The first response was about mission calls.  The second response was about "all the praying has been done" by the time the prophet sees it.  I disagreed per my comment above.

[omegaseamaster75]

1) Yes, the prophet calls every missionary in a sense.  He's given a list of names every week.  He prays personally over that list.  And he has made changes to said list (very rarely) because he is inspired to do so.

 

 

You know this how?

 

So the prophet reviews 50,000 plus new calls/year prays over them and gives his stamp of approval? 

 

Sorry you are up in the night. I do not doubt that he approves the calls, heck there is a rubber stamp with his signature on it for every call.

 

I suggest that he is involved in deeper issues.

[Guest]

Please read more carefully.

 

1) I said, "In a sense".

2) I said he looks over a weekly list.  

 

Yes, the individual letters are stamped.  But the call is not just a letter.  It is this process that I was referring to.

 

In case there is any doubt about the divine nature of callings:

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/the-divine-call-of-a-missionary?lang=eng

Edited November 16, 2015 by Guest

[NeedleinA]

 Many of the reasons you state as why some people aren't called aren't really reasons at all. 

 

Many of the reasons you state as why some people aren't called aren't really reasons at all...for some people.

 

While it might be true that my "reasons" were not factors for the specific individuals you shared it doesn't discount those reasons for others. Labeling my examples as "not reasons at all" for all people would be incorrect. For each bishop that was called and moved 1 year later, it is equally plausible that another elsewhere was not called for that exact reason. While perhaps your husband was up to the task of Bishop and a move, there could have been another candidate not ready for both at once. My two cents :)

Edited November 17, 2015 by NeedleinA

[EarlJibbs]

Please read more carefully.

 

1) I said, "In a sense".

2) I said he looks over a weekly list.  

 

Yes, the individual letters are stamped.  But the call is not just a letter.  It is this process that I was referring to.

 

In case there is any doubt about the divine nature of callings:

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/the-divine-call-of-a-missionary?lang=eng

That is the exact talk I was thinking about while reading the comments. And think about it, there are surely many more missionaries to be approved and called a week than Bishops or Stake Presidents. 

[LeSellers]

I don't have to worry, tho'.  I have a beard and I'm not married, so I'm categorically out of consideration.  Even if I get married, I probably won't shave the beard.

Not good enough.

I know at least two faithful brothers who had beards and who were called as bishops. The beards came off.

The implications of this are obvious, so I'll leave them unstated.

Lehi

[john doe]

I skimmed the posts, I think most are missing the point, by the time a name is submitted to Salt Lake the prayer and reflection about who would be a good candidate has already been done.

 

If a name gets rejected from salt Lake it is not because "it's not the right time" It is because in their background checks they found something that disqualifies that individual. 

 

Lets not kid ourselves and think that a GA ponders the names of a bunch of strangers/people he has no association with and gets some flash of enlightenment about who is worthy and who is not. 

 

 

And you know this..... how?

[john doe]

You know this how?

 

So the prophet reviews 50,000 plus new calls/year prays over them and gives his stamp of approval? 

 

Sorry you are up in the night. I do not doubt that he approves the calls, heck there is a rubber stamp with his signature on it for every call.

 

I suggest that he is involved in deeper issues.

 

 

Someone hasn't been paying attention during General Conference. This from Elder Ballard during the April 2015 conference:

 

"Fortunately the Lord has provided ways for us to reach out to you. For example, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve assigns every missionary to his or her mission. Although this is done without a traditional face-to-face interview, technology and revelation combine to provide an experience that is remarkably intimate and personal. Let me tell you how this happens.

Your photograph comes up on a computer screen, together with key information provided by your bishop and stake president. When your picture appears, we look into your eyes and review your answers to the missionary recommendation questions. For that brief moment, it seems as if you are present and responding to us directly.

As we look at your photograph, we trust that you have cleared in every way the “raised bar” required today to be a faithful, successful missionary. Then, by the power of the Spirit of the Lord and under the direction of President Thomas S. Monson, we assign you to one of the Church’s 406 worldwide missions.

No, it isn’t the same as a personal, face-to-face interview. But it’s close."

 

A sustained prophet does indeed call and approve every mission call.