Debt before Mission?


jdDUB
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Hello all,

I just want to start this post, and give thanks to all who read my post and or comment. I appreciate the time you will have taken, as it is a valuable resource!

A little about myself, I'm a 20 year old male, who left the church after high school to persue a college degree. About two months ago, I found my way back to church, and have never had so much joy in my life.

My life was in ruins, and I felt without direction, and by way of the Holy Ghost, I was made known unto that the Lord wants me to serve a mission.

I never had a desire to go on a mission, and was often asked under immense pressure whether I would go, since right before I turned 18, the church lowered the age from 19 to 18. I did not have a testimony of the Gospel then, and the pressure pushed me further away.

Anyways, to the meat and potatoes of this thread.

While attending college in the fall of 2013, I catastrophically failed, and walked away with a fair chunk of debt. In the range of around 10,000. Student loans only cover around 10 %, since I dropped out. The remaining 90 % is with a debt collection agency. Which I might add, will not take payments. They only want the full amount.

I spoke with my bishop this week, and we got everything on paper. He was very encouraging, but even he had a hard time seeing the options I had available.

I found it terribly difficult to even tell him I wanted to serve, because I knew this issue was going to hold me down.

I'm searching for advice. In regards to the mission fund itself, my father recommended that I reach out to my extended family (many of which, prior to my coming back to church, voiced their willingness to support me financially for a mission in some way). He also said he would maintain any payments I had while I was gone. However, I'm still very unclear on how this would work. He says that while my sister was on her mission, he paid her student loans.

That would be all well and good if I owed the full amount to the Federal Government. I owe the majority, however, to a debt collector.

I've looked into personal loans, which don't look promising.. And to be honest every time I think about it, I get an overwhelming cloud of fear.

I think I've pretty well explained my situation, and I don't expect a crystal clear answer from anyone, but any advice is much appreciated.

I've been praying a lot, studying my scriptures a lot, and fasting. I have tremendous faith, but I fear my doubts outweigh my faith.

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First, I'm so happy for you that you've found your way back.  Keep praying and fasting.  Satan will try to use this to discourage you; don't let him.  The Lord has all power, knows what you need, and is merciful and generous beyond imagining.  If you have to work for a year to pay off this debt and then go on your mission, do it!  Don't let the length of the obligation keep you from going.  It's possible that acting like that, in faith, will open doors for you - there is great power in taking the first step.  Even if it takes longer than you hope, certainly your faith will increase for the effort.

 

Other thoughts: I don't know the technicalities of how these things work, but aren't there entities out there which help arrange for payments for this sort of thing, as a go-between, despite what the collection agency want?  (Maybe someone else here understands how that works - there are commercials for such things all the time, but I don't now if they're legit or just make things worse.)  Can things like bankruptcy court arrange for payments rather than a lump sum?  If you're not already working and saving toward paying off that debt, start - the sooner the better.

 

Be humble and accept help.  Anyone who helps you to serve a mission will be blessed for their efforts.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/mark/9.23?lang=eng#22

 

FWIW.

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I don't understand how young people can get into debt.

When I was your age, I worked full time and went to school full time, all year around.  So not only did I not have debt but I had cash on hand.  I also had a girlfriend whom I married.

I think the best advice is there for you.

Work, spend no money, no internet, no tv, no cell phone, no car, no texting, no "hanging out" with "friends", no "concerts" unless they are free, no "clubs", nothing.  Live like a monk or a priest in the monastery.  And pay off the loans.  Then don't stop.  Earn and save the money for your mission.  And pay your own way.

You will end up a better man for it.

And you will learn lessons on frugality and sensibility that will serve you, and your wife and kids and family well for the rest of your life, and also on your mission.  Because your mission will not be a picnic.  It will be a full time, no pay job.

dc

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I don't understand how young people can get into debt.

When I was your age, I worked full time and went to school full time, all year around.  So not only did I not have debt but I had cash on hand.  I also had a girlfriend whom I married.

I think the best advice is there for you.

Work, spend no money, no internet, no tv, no cell phone, no car, no texting, no "hanging out" with "friends", no "concerts" unless they are free, no "clubs", nothing.  Live like a monk or a priest in the monastery.  And pay off the loans.  Then don't stop.  Earn and save the money for your mission.  And pay your own way.

You will end up a better man for it.

And you will learn lessons on frugality and sensibility that will serve you, and your wife and kids and family well for the rest of your life, and also on your mission.  Because your mission will not be a picnic.  It will be a full time, no pay job.

dc

While this is good advice, you'll still end up with debt using this method if you are a 'young person' attending college, assuming you can even get a job. Despite what I constantly hear, jobs for young people are not forth coming, and the ones that are(if you can get one)..., can't pay for college.

Without college it is a reasonable way to get out of debt. assuming someone gets $4000 a month, lives with their parents rent and food free it would take 3 months to pay off the debt.

Edited by Crypto
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I don't understand how young people can get into debt.

When I was your age, I worked full time and went to school full time, all year around.  So not only did I not have debt but I had cash on hand.  I also had a girlfriend whom I married.

 

Not going to assume your age, but getting into debt as a young adult is easily done, without realizing what you have started in this day and age. Very different time than from even 15 years ago. 

 

I don't think this is really needed in the scenario. This individual obviously understands the fact that they have a large amount of debt and a significant problem they are faced with. Solutions are better than pointing out how you don't understand how they got themselves into the situation.

 

For the OP, congratulations. You are the people I look up to. Your faith is incredible, and I know it will help you through this crazy and stressful time. I liked zil's advice: there has to be some kind of in-between agency that will pay it off for you while you make some sort of payment plans to them (unfortunately I can see this coming with interest rates of their own, but maybe a solution feasible in your scenario).

 

I would talk to a financial counselor from your previous university. Maybe they could give you some guidance. Or just a financial advisor in general if you know of any around. 

 

I wish you luck! As zil has stated, even if it means taking a year to work and wait before you go, you can still prepare for a year to grow your testimony and increase your desire to serve The Lord. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

I've been praying a lot, studying my scriptures a lot, and fasting. I have tremendous faith, but I fear my doubts outweigh my faith.

 

I don't have any financial advice...I'm not good at that sort of thing.  But I'm so happy for you that you have returned to the church.  And I want to give you encouragement.  When the Holy Ghost gave you the prompting to serve a mission, He was aware of your school debt, He still gave you the prompting.  So that means there is a way.  We don't know what it is, but He does.

Second, you said you fear your doubts outweigh your faith.  I don't think so.  I think you have great faith, and yes, you have doubts and fears also.  That's good.  It is this moments when we fear our doubts will overcome our faith...that we can turn to Christ and plead for help and our faith grows.  It is through turning to Him, realizing our need for Him that faith gets stronger.  

 

I wasn't quite clear, did you tell your Bishop that you wanted to serve a mission?  If not, tell him.  When I was young (now I'm old, LOL), I wanted to serve but I was living on my own and didn't have any savings.  When I talked to my Bishop he suggested I talk to family, extended family etc.  I did, but nothing turned up so I thought I would have to wait until I saved enough money for a mission (which in all likelihood would never have happened).  Then a series of events occurred and I ended up moving to another city.  In my new ward, my Bishop met with me and asked me about my goals.  I told him I was trying to save up to serve a mission, but was barely making ends meet so it was a slow process. He said, "Are you spiritually ready to serve a mission?"   Excitedly, I reassured him that I was.  I really wanted to go.  He said, "You don't go on a mission when you are financially ready, you go when you are spiritually ready."  He helped me make arrangements to get financial assistance from the church and I went on my mission.  Notice the attitude/understanding of the second Bishop was very different than the first...but also notice that the Lord guided my life so that I ended up with the second Bishop.  

 

The Lord has a plan for you too.  Keep praying, keep trusting Him.  Keep doing everything you can spiritually and financially, and tell your Bishop your goal if you haven't already.  Then wait upon the Lord. He won't let you down.  

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Guest MormonGator

Debt will just crush you. Do whatever possible to get out of it. 

 

From one brother to another, I am so proud of you. At your age, I could never be caring and introspective. God bless you. 

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Not going to assume your age, but getting into debt as a young adult is easily done, without realizing what you have started in this day and age. Very different time than from even 15 years ago. 

 

I don't think this is really needed in the scenario. This individual obviously understands the fact that they have a large amount of debt and a significant problem they are faced with. Solutions are better than pointing out how you don't understand how they got themselves into the situation.

 

 

 

I understand that things are different.

And I think what I say is needed in the scenario.

The biggest thing that has changed is the attitude.

It used to be if you didn't have the money to do something, you didn't do it.  Until you earned and saved the money to do it.

Like go to college.

Now, the attitude is, just borrow the money.  And so young people go far into debt.

I see the college students and graduate students coming out of school 100's of thousands in debt.  In this yes, very changed economy how on earth do they ever expect to pay off that much debt?

And that's the important point.

Stay out of debt.  Period.

If you are in debt, get out.  Period.

For some, it's a very difficult concept to grasp. 

But we have heard the idea before.

Where have we heard that before?

dc

Edited by David13
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jdDUB, I don't think your situation is as hopeless as you believe it is.  If you moved back in with your parents and they didn't demand rent, and you worked a minimum wage job, in a year you'd have $15K.  That should be more than enough to retire all of the debt--so long as you are willing to work and wait, and your parents really are as willing to facilitate this as they claim to be--and you'll still be young enough to serve a mission.

 

Also:  Don't believe your debt collector if they tell you they won't accept partial payments (debt collectors lie, routinely, for a number of reasons that I won't get into here).  If you send 'em a check, they'll almost certainly cash it and apply it to your outstanding balance.  So, I'd suggest sending them a small-ish check for $25-$50, and follow up in a month or so to verify that it did get applied.  Once you confirm that, start sending them payments for as much as you can, as often as you can (and for the love of all things holy, KEEP IMPECCABLE RECORDS).  The sooner the debt gets paid down, the less interest accrues.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Guest LiterateParakeet

It used to be if you didn't have the money to do something, you didn't do it. Until you earned and saved the money to do it.

Like go to college.

. . . But we have heard the idea before.

Where have we heard that before?

dc

Generaly speaking, I agree that we should avoid debt like the plague. However, the Brethren have said that it is acceptable to get into debt for two things a house and college.

That said, I don't agree with the idea of getting oneself into 100's of thousands of debt even for school. But that isn't what we are talking about here. The OP got school loans to go to school which again the Brethren have said is acceptable. The real trouble started when he got into some trouble and didn't complete the semester. That was unfortunate, but it's not that uncommon for young people to do foolish things. But now he has repented and is making better choices.

He came here asking for advice, what's done is done. He doesn't need a lecture, he's already trying his best to put things right.

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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Generaly speaking, I agree that we should avoid debt like the plague. However, the Brethren have said that it is acceptable to get into debt for two things a house and college.

That said, I don't agree with the idea of getting oneself into 100's of thousands of debt even for school. But that isn't what we are talking about here. The OP got school loans to go to school which again the Brethren have said is acceptable. The real trouble started when he got into some trouble and didn't complete the semester. That was unfortunate, but it's not that uncommon for young people to do foolish things. But now he has repented and is making better choices.

He came here asking for advice, what's done is done. He doesn't need a lecture, he's already trying his best to put things right.

 

That's what I gave.  Advice.

Call it a lecture on advice if you will, but it's just that.  Advice.

dc

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In one year, you can easily clear a $10,000 debt, assuming you are living at home. Even if you work only a $10/hour job, 2000 hours (a year's worth of work) will net your $20,000 -- $18,000 after tithing, and probably $15,000 after taxes. That will pay off your debt and give you a good start on what you need for your mission costs.

 

A year and a half of even minimum-wage work can pay off your debt and get you in a financial position to serve a mission. If your parents are willing to help out a bit, you could even go part-time to a community college and earn some college credits over the next 18 months, which would help you out post-mission.

 

During that 12 to 18 months, you can continue preparing for your mission, studying scriptures, and deepening your testimony.

 

Good luck.

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  • 6 months later...

Somewhere in your ward or stake, there's likely to be an attorney who's smacked around a debt collection agency or two.

They assume they can get away with anything because you won't know any better.

One properly phrased letter from an attorney changes their whole attitude, because they then know they can't get away with anything.  It's like trying to pull a strong arm robbery on a 98 pound weakling and finding out his new girlfriend is a pro MMA fighter.

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4 hours ago, NightSG said:

Somewhere in your ward or stake, there's likely to be an attorney who's smacked around a debt collection agency or two.

They assume they can get away with anything because you won't know any better.

One properly phrased letter from an attorney changes their whole attitude, because they then know they can't get away with anything.  It's like trying to pull a strong arm robbery on a 98 pound weakling and finding out his new girlfriend is a pro MMA fighter.

Not sure what you're saying. Debt collection agencies are fully within their rights to try to collect legally owed debt.

If I were trying to collect a debt and found out the guy who owes me has a threatening pro MMA fighter boyfriend/girlfriend, I would carry a gun to blow his/her head off if s/he attacked me when I tried to collect the debt. I suspect a debt collection agency would do the parallel legal action to a threatening lawyer.

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21 minutes ago, Vort said:

Not sure what you're saying. Debt collection agencies are fully within their rights to try to collect legally owed debt.

As long as they stick to the legal methods.  Most don't, until they get a nastygram from a lawyer.

For example, a friend listed me as a reference on a credit application once.  Any time she was more than 2-3 days late with a payment, I'd start getting 2-3 calls a day looking for her, with some of the reps even telling me how much she owed, etc.  I was only a reference, not a cosigner, so I had never agreed to receive the calls, (or even dealt with the creditor in any way until they started calling) and shouldn't have been getting any information other than, at most, "please ask her to call us."  A demand to stop calling just got me "we can't take you off the application, and all the people on the application will be contacted each time."

One afternoon I happened to be in the middle of a conversation with an attorney (who already knew the story, and the friend in question) when they called.  I handed him the phone and asked him to just get them to stop calling me.  He answered, identified himself and his law firm, and started thoroughly questioning them as to the loan, whether they had made contact with the debtor that day, whether I had agreed to receive these calls, etc.  

By the end of the call, he was in full-on "come to Jesus" mode with them, (and his dad is a fire-and-brimstone Southern Baptist preacher, so he's good at it) lecturing the rep on every point of state and Federal law they had violated.  I never heard from them again, and the next time I talked to her I mentioned it and she said "oh, I guess that's why they only call once a month and they're extra nice about working out payment plans now."  She wasn't trying to avoid paying; payday just sometimes comes a few days after the payment due date.  When rent, bills or whatever hit at the same time, she'd be a bit short, and they had been refusing to take short payments.

In essence, if you don't know all of your rights when it comes to debt collection, ask a good lawyer.  Often, just a letter from one letting them know that he's involved suddenly makes the creditor remember your rights.

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