Membership in the Great and Abominable Church

[JojoBag]

I'm reading a book by Elder H. Verlan Andersen called, “The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil.” It is making me seriously think about my own status with the Lord. I've been asking myself if I'm unknowingly a member of that church. Elder Andersen said that many members “will be deceived into joining Satan’s organization, thus accepting his plan to destroy free agency.” It seems to all come down to this question: are you deceived as to what is true and what is false?

 

Elder Andersen talks about things I've posted here. One post was “A Divisive Event,” in which I talked about a book by Duane Crowther. “Inspired Prophetic Warnings.” Both books talk about a divisive event that would put everyone in one of two camps: the Savior or the Devil. Elder Andersen wrote, “According to the parables of the 'wheat and the tares' and the 'ten virgins,' when the 'great division' comes, at least one-half of those who regard themselves as 'faithful' members of the Lord’s Church will be classified as members of Satan’s organization.” He goes on to say that many good and faithful members, members who hold temple recommends, are very active and hold important callings are a part of Satan's organization.

 

Elder Andersen said primarily that the LDS who are members of this organization are those who are deceived. Those who are deceived are the “tares” and classified among the wicked who will be burned at the Second Coming.

 

The late President of the Church, John Taylor, commented:

We are told that, many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?’ Yet to all such will he say, ‘Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.’ You say that means the outsiders? No, it does not. Do they do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus? No.

This means you Latter-day Saints, who heal the sick, cast out devils and do many wonderful things in the name of Jesus…Hear it, ye Latter-day Saints! Hear it, ye Seventies and ye High Priests!… (D&C Commentary, pp. 462, 463)

 

So what are some of the reasons why the LDS will belong to Satan's organization.

Book of Mormon prophets also warned the Gentiles against deception. Nephi stated that “the humble followers of Christ…in many instances… do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.” (2 Nephi 28:14) The following verses indicate that the fault lies in hearkening unto the “precepts of men” and relying on the “arm of flesh” rather than the gift of the Holy Ghost and the power of God:

Yea, woe be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of

God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!…

Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost. (2 Nephi 28:26, 31)

Nephi foresees that some of the prosperous ones in Zion are lulled

away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.” (Ibid., v.21)

Still others are deceived and are “at ease in Zion” because they refuse to believe the scriptures and the prophets which teach that there is a devil:

And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance. (Ibid., v.22)

Those who believe there is no Satan are not going to believe that he has a Great and Abominable Church on earth either. Such people could easily be led to accept those philosophies of men which are the doctrines of Satan, and thus support those organizations which teach and practice them.

 

 

Another reason is “inherited lies and false traditions.” These are members who believe in lies and false traditions passed on by family members from one generation to another. I would also add to that the false traditions passed on from one member to another. Another is failure to hearken to the word of the lord. This includes ignorance, lack of and/or refusal to gain knowledge, and unbelief.

 

I think one way to avoid deception is live more of the letter of the law. I get the impression from things I've read and observed that too many LDS use the spirit of the law to negate the letter of the law. I've done this myself.

 

 

May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!

(2 Nephi 4:32)

 

Yea, and the people did observe to keep the commandments of the Lord; and they were strict in observing the ordinances of God, according to the law of Moses; for they were taught to keep the law of Moses until it should be fulfilled.

(Alma 30:3)

 

 

 

The word “strict” is used 13 times in the Book of Mormon and each time it refers to the strictness of laws. I think if we just coast along thinking God will understand if we aren't living his laws strictly, we'll have a serious surprise at our judgment.

 

This is as far as I've gotten in the book. As I said, I'm genuinely worried about my status and the status of all members of the Church. Ask yourself this question: Am I a member of the great and abominable church of the Devil? If you want a free copy of the book, go to www.archive.org. In the search engine, put in the name of the book and you can get a free PDF copy.

Edited November 29, 2015 by JojoBag

[mirkwood]

I've read that...I should probably re-read it, it was quite a few years ago.  Very well written and I think quite accurate.

[mirkwood]

Here is a link that will take you to pdf files of all five of his books.

 

http://www.redhotlogo.com/freedomfiles.htm

 

The Book of Mormon and the Constitution is just as good, if not better.

[JojoBag]

I've read that...I should probably re-read it, it was quite a few years ago. Very well written and I think quite accurate.

I found a quote from Elder Andersen in which he said that almost with exception the students at BYU believe in all or part of the communist manifesto. That's pretty deceived.

A while back I posted "Are you a closet communist." There are a lot of members who are sucked in by the subtle ideas of the communists.

[Trex]

maybe. Only with prayer we can know the truth , I found lots of pictures which makes me think the same

[JojoBag]

What is pretty sad is that a vast majority of Latter-day Saints, 82%, are members of the Devil's church and don't know it.  Elder Andersen said that many with high callings, temple recommend holders, active, good LDS are deceived and ignorant as to what the Savior actually requires to live through His Second Coming into the millennium.

Edited December 7, 2015 by JojoBag

[Guest]

Where did you come up with that number?

[Blackmarch]

The part where it says the great and abominable church will make war with the saints and persecute them is sticking out to me at the moment.

[JojoBag]

Where did you come up with that number?

 

Elder Andersen said that the five foolish and five wise virgin parable applies to the "faithful" Latter-day Saints.  I came up with that figure since the worldwide activity rate is only 36%, the "faithful," and divide that by 2.  The 82% are the deceived portion who take no time or thought to learning what is genuinely true and what are inherited lies and false traditions.  This is the "all is well in Zion" crowd who think that they are good to go.  I am very concerned that I'm part of that group.

[Guest]

JoJo,

 

Honest question:  Where did you get the 36% statistic?

 

I'd also comment on post #4 with regard to the communist manifesto. --

 

"All or part of..."  That's a pretty broad category.  I consider myself pretty libertarian, yet even I accept that the Consitution says that the federal government has the authority to build roads.  This is not to say that I agree that the FHWA should have nearly the power or funding that it currently does.  Nor do I believe the government should have a monopoly on road building.  I just don't see a practical way around it without some steep government intervention which tends to amount to the same thing.

 

It'd be interesting to know just how many believed in ALL of the Manifesto.

[askandanswer]

I think that if half the members of the church were members of the great and abominable church, someone in authority would have plainly told us by now. One of the key responsibilities of a prophet is to raise a voice of warning, and if so many of us were in the great and abominable church, I expect that we would have been plainly warned about it by now. The fact that we have not been plainly warned about it suggests that either the prophets are not doing their job, which is unlikely, or that we are, in fact, not part of the great and abominable church, which I think is more likely. As for President Taylor's teaching that Do they do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus? No. While I am not too familiar with the activities of other Christian faiths, I would be very surprised if most of them did not do their good works in the name of Jesus. If they are doing their good works in the name of Jesus, then I think it is more likely that they, rather than the LDS, are those to whom Christ is referring when He says depart from me. 

[Guest]

I think that if half the members of the church were members of the great and abominable church, someone in authority would have plainly told us by now... 

 

They have.

 

Pres Kimball told mothers to go home.  He was mostly ignored.  Then Pres. Benson said the same thing.  He was criticized.  Some women (as reported in newspapers of the day) said "Who does he think he is?"  For the record, in the article I read at the time, the woman quoted was a "faithful Mormon."  I thought he was the prophet, ya know, who speaks in God's behalf?

 

We've been warned for over 150 years to get our food storage in order.  But only about 10% to 15% in the past several wards I've been in have even one month of food supplies and emergency items like an emergency stove to cook with.

 

We're constantly told about the sanctity of the family and marriage.  We've even got the Proclamation.  But how many people are getting divorced?  The temple rate of divorce is rising.  The total LDS divorce rate (in and out of the temple) is pretty close to the national average.

 

Child abuse in each category/type is no different for LDS than the national average.  Yet Pres. Hinckley quoted the millstone statement regarding such abusers.

 

We are being told constantly.  And people are falling short.  They consider themselves faithful.  Others who are inactive also consider themselves faithful.  I was told by one such inactive that,"It's not that I don't believe in it anymore.  I believe it.  But I just can't go anymore because..." I'll refrain from divulging his reasoning.

 

I don't know if we can tell where that line is between the five wise/foolish or even who the 10 are vs others.  So, that 82% number Jojo gave is a bit out there.  But who knows?  What we do know is that many in that day will be found wanting.

[mordorbund]

 

We're constantly told about the sanctity of the family and marriage.  We've even got the Proclamation.  But how many people are getting divorced?  The temple rate of divorce is rising.  The total LDS divorce rate (in and out of the temple) is pretty close to the national average.

 

Oh?

 

[Guest]

That's interesting.  I'll have to dig up where I heard the stats I spouted.

[Guest MormonGator]

Oh?

 

 My thoughts too. LDS divorce at a much lesser rate than other churches. I'm glad it never happened to me. Closet I came was breaking off an engagement. It was brutal. 

[dahlia]

So women who aren't in the home are members of the Great and Abominable Church?  Are you kidding me?

 

I've never understood a focus on Satan. I keep my covenants, I mind the Prophet, I don't worry about Satan in my everyday life. I dont live in fear that somehow, in some way that is apparently hidden from me, that I am in league with Satan.

[LeSellers]

So women who aren't in the home are members of the Great and Abominable Church?

No one can say if a specific woman is or is not a member of the G&A based on whether she is "in the home".

However, if we look carefully at the results of so many women letting "professionals" raise their children, we might be justified in ratifying the Prophet's saying that mothers belong in the home, raising their own children.

Lehi

[Guest MormonGator]

 

 

I've never understood a focus on Satan. I keep my covenants, I mind the Prophet, I don't worry about Satan in my everyday life. I dont live in fear that somehow, in some way that is apparently hidden from me, that I am in league with Satan.

Dahlia, welcome back. This is exactly why I missed you. 

You are dead on, 100% correct

[Guest]

So women who aren't in the home are members of the Great and Abominable Church?  Are you kidding me?

 

I've never understood a focus on Satan. I keep my covenants, I mind the Prophet, I don't worry about Satan in my everyday life. I dont live in fear that somehow, in some way that is apparently hidden from me, that I am in league with Satan.

 

Context is everything.

 

1) First of all, I said "mothers".  Here are Pres. Benson's words.  It was more politically correct and infinitely more inspiring.  But it was touted as the "Mothers go home speech".

 

2) For the record, "The Great and Abominable Church" is just Jojo's word choice.  I wouldn't go that far.  But I'm just not in the mood for a semantic argument with him over this.  

 

3) YES, specifically, those who have a choice to stay at home or work outside (when it is mutually exclusive) are choosing to not raise their kids in favor of having a career are not following the counsel of the prophets.  I know of a particular woman who said straight out in front of her kids, "If I had it to do all over again, I never would have had any kids."  That went over really well.  And, no, she did not say it in anger.  It was just a matter-of-fact statement for her.

 

4) This is not counsel for women to "know their place".  It is counsel for all to remember that the most important role in the world is that of mother.  No success in the world will compensate for failure in the home.  

 

Elder Holland said,"There is no more sacred word in all of secular or holy writ than that of mother."  

 

Yet so many women choose to outsource their children's nurture and raising to others so they can "be more fulfilled" in earthly pursuits.  Exceptions like a single mother are obvious.  Someone's got to pay the bills.  And I for one certainly don't encourage being on the dole.  And if I'm allowed a judgment call on something like this, I'll point to the woman who does make her children the priority in her life, yet can still maintain a job outside the home.  Some women are capable of doing that.  Many are not.

 

And in this day and age when the family is already being torn apart and children are leaving the faith of their parents so much more readily than in the past, there is no question that a faithful, loving mother in the home would be the most important part of the remedy.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Guest

[JojoBag]

I think that if half the members of the church were members of the great and abominable church, someone in authority would have plainly told us by now. One of the key responsibilities of a prophet is to raise a voice of warning, and if so many of us were in the great and abominable church, I expect that we would have been plainly warned about it by now. The fact that we have not been plainly warned about it suggests that either the prophets are not doing their job, which is unlikely, or that we are, in fact, not part of the great and abominable church, which I think is more likely. As for President Taylor's teaching that Do they do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus? No. While I am not too familiar with the activities of other Christian faiths, I would be very surprised if most of them did not do their good works in the name of Jesus. If they are doing their good works in the name of Jesus, then I think it is more likely that they, rather than the LDS, are those to whom Christ is referring when He says depart from me. 

 

I see that you are from Oz. I'm married to an Aussie and currently live in the Sydney area. One thing I've learned about the Australian Saints, and my wife agrees with me, is that they are much more deceived into accepting the fruits of socialism than their American cousins. This isn't an attack on you, just a statement of fact. However, to be fair, in my view, a majority of American Saints also accept it, also. According to Elder Andersen, the great and abominable church consists of socialism/communism, its supporters (knowing or unknowing), and its fruits. This takes in a very wide variety of groups.

 

Like nearly every other government in the world (U.S. included), Australia is what I'd call a modified form of semi-socialism. Even the conservative Liberal Party is semi-socialist. When I put in a lot of overtime, the government takes 48% of my paycheck. Then there are all the shire council fees and GST (sales tax) on every single item including services, parking fees, traffic tickets, licensing fees, court fees and with your petrol (gasoline), taxes on your taxes, of 10% (with the government wanting 15%). The semi-socialism government (federal and state) of the U.S., can take up to 50% of your wages.

 

In Oz and the U.S., the government then doles out some of the taxes, a large portion of them, to social programs and subsidies to the “less fortunate.” You get things like socialist medicine, child endowment, spousal allowance if she doesn't work, unemployment, welfare of many varying types, TAFE and other subsidized schools, and a myriad of other wasteful programs. To get the funding for this, the government takes your hard earned money and gives it to other people. This is wrong in the eyes of God.

 

We have the doctrines and principles of self-sufficiency and work. Knowingly and willingly taking any form of government subsidy means you are taking money earned through the work of other people. Some people claim this is charity, but according to Elder Andersen, Pres. Benson and several other prophets and apostles, it is not charity. Anytime a government takes money through force, it is stealing no matter what the government calls it. And whenever force is used, it is Satan's plan, not God's plan.

 

The Church will not come right out and say you are part of the Devil's church. You will and do get constant, ongoing warnings and are expected to research the writings of the apostles and prophets. Their writings are replete with statements that socialism and all its fruits are part of the Devil's church. Too many LDS think that they will learn all they need from attending church. NOT!

 

If anyone is deceived into joining the Devil's church, it is their own fault, because there is no excuse for being deceived. We have the scriptures, the writings of modern prophets and apostles, and the statements of our current prophet to guide us. Most importantly we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. If we cannot see through Satan's deception because of whatever reason, it is entirely our problem. You are expected and required by God to gain knowledge for yourself, by yourself.

 

In the late 50's and 60's, at the behest of Pres. David O. McKay, Elder Benson used to go around the U.S. giving speeches at various organizations, and especially at BYU against the acceptance of socialism/communism and its fruits. At one point, over fifty BYU professors signed a petition requesting the Pres. McKay step down as prophet emeritus because of his stance on socialism. Needless to say, there were over fifty vacancies at BYU. Elder Benson eventually said that his greatest enemies were from BYU. (You can read this in the book, “There Are Save Two Churches Only”)

 

Take that along with Elder Andersen's statement that almost without exception, BYU students unknowingly accept all or part of the communist manifesto. Then add to that, Elder Heber C. Kimball once stated (I'll have to dig up the quote) that he doubted that more than 1 in 20 LDS would make it through the gates of the Celestial Kingdom. That's only 5%. Plain and simple, many LDS are simply deceived.

[JojoBag]

JoJo,

 

Honest question:  Where did you get the 36% statistic?

 

I'd also comment on post #4 with regard to the communist manifesto. --

 

"All or part of..."  That's a pretty broad category.  I consider myself pretty libertarian, yet even I accept that the Consitution says that the federal government has the authority to build roads.  This is not to say that I agree that the FHWA should have nearly the power or funding that it currently does.  Nor do I believe the government should have a monopoly on road building.  I just don't see a practical way around it without some steep government intervention which tends to amount to the same thing.

 

It'd be interesting to know just how many believed in ALL of the Manifesto.

 

I got the 36% activity rate from the a Pew poll.  Elder Andersen said that the 5 foolish, 5 wise virgins applied to the "faithful" church members, not the Christian world as a whole.  If you really want to nit pick, I would say that faithful members actually are those who have a temple recommend, or would qualify for a recommend if they were not permitted to attend the temple for whatever reason.  That raises the percentage of those who join the church of the Devil.

 

As for the "all or part" part, I would have to agree with Elder Andersen.  We do need some limited government, but government handouts are simply wrong and against the doctrine of work.  If anyone willingly accepts these handouts, they have joined the Devil's church.  You are supporting yourself on the labor of another person when you do this.  The government can only "help" the "poor" by taking money from someone who earned it.  Additionally, if you support the idea of public welfare, you also have joined that church.  The idea of public welfare is very much accepted by a large number of LDS.

 

I'm not against all government, but I am against all the subsidies, pork barrel projects and outright waste the government uses to keep sheeple mentally medicated as to the reality of the world.  The deception runs very deep and you can unknowingly be a member of the Devil's church because of that deception.  It requires knowledge to not be deceived.  The vast majority of LDS do nothing to gain knowledge.

[Vort]

 

I got the 36% activity rate from the a Pew poll.  Elder Andersen said that the 5 foolish, 5 wise virgins applied to the "faithful" church members, not the Christian world as a whole.  If you really want to nit pick, I would say that faithful members actually are those who have a temple recommend, or would qualify for a recommend if they were not permitted to attend the temple for whatever reason.

 

But the fact that you interpret his words that way does not mean that was his intent, or that the parable means what you claim. Putting a statistic like "18%" to the interpretation of a parable strikes me as looking well beyond the mark.

 

The vast majority of LDS do nothing to gain knowledge.

 

I think this is an overstatement.

[Guest MormonGator]

 

 

I think this is an overstatement.

 

I do too. 

[JojoBag]

So women who aren't in the home are members of the Great and Abominable Church?  Are you kidding me?

 

I've never understood a focus on Satan. I keep my covenants, I mind the Prophet, I don't worry about Satan in my everyday life. I dont live in fear that somehow, in some way that is apparently hidden from me, that I am in league with Satan.

 

Socialism/communism's published goals are to break up the family and require children to be educated in a public indoctrination system.  Easy divorce is encouraged as part of this goal.  It is and always has been God's plan for a woman with children to nurture and teach them.  The home is the cradle of virtue and it is where a child's values are taught by the mother.  If a woman pursues a career or works outside the home when it is not necessary, she has joined the Devil's church.   I'm not talking about circumstances where there is absolutely no choice, but where through no fault of her own she must work.  But, "no fault" is very deceptive.  If you caused the reason through bad choices, or you want a bigger house, a new car, can't make due with what you do have, then you've got a problem.

[JojoBag]

 

 

 

But the fact that you interpret his words that way does not mean that was his intent, or that the parable means what you claim. Putting a statistic like "18%" to the interpretation of a parable strikes me as looking well beyond the mark.

 

 

I think this is an overstatement.

 

Read his books.  His writing is unambiguous.  You'll see that is exactly what he means.