Happiness and Misery Now

[james12]

I was reading Elder Cook's conference talk and something he said has caused me to ponder. He presented two scriptures, "If there be no righteousness there be no happiness" (2 Ne 2:13), and, "Behold, I say unto you wickedness never was happiness" (Alma 41:10). Of course I have heard these scriptures many times, but following the first scripture he said:

The adversary has been successful in planting a great myth in the minds of many people. He and his emissaries declare that the real choice we have is between happiness and pleasure now in this life and happiness in a life to come (which the adversary asserts may not exist). This myth is a false choice, but it is very seductive.

Towards the end of the talk he says further:

Adherence to sacred gospel principles will allow us to be temple worthy, enable us to find happiness in this life, and lead us back to our heavenly home. ("Shipshape and Bristol Fashion: Be Temple Worthy - in Good Times and Bad Times", GC Oct 2015, italics in the original)

 

So, if righteousness is happiness, wickedness never was happiness, and it is a myth to believe happiness is delayed until a future state, how come wickedness sometimes appears to make me happy now and righteousness sometimes appears to not? Am I simply deceived in the very moment?  

[skalenfehl]

People tend to confuse pleasure with happiness. In the second book of Nephi, we are told that they lived after the "manner of happiness." There is a difference between the joy that comes from coming unto Christ and the pleasures of the world, including materialism. But those who wander from pleasure to pleasure are never able to fill the void in their lives that only Jesus Christ can fill. And it is why wickedness is never happiness. Anything short of the peace that comes from obedience to God because of our love for Him, is not joy at all. It is misery. It is a lie. And Satan is the father of all lies. 

Edited November 29, 2015 by skalenfehl

[LeSellers]

There's a big difference between "happiness" and "pleasure".

In general, pleasure is about the flesh, and happiness is about the spirit. If one wants to be happy, he'll choose the right. If all he wants is pleasure, … .

The Lord allows us, and encourages us, to have pleasure, but there are strict limits as to quantity and "quality". When we respect these limits, they may even lead to some happiness.

But true happiness usually comes from losing oneself, from forgetting pleasure in favor of seeking happiness.

Lehi

[zil]

So, if righteousness is happiness, wickedness never was happiness, and it is a myth to believe happiness is delayed until a future state, how come wickedness sometimes appears to make me happy now and righteousness sometimes appears to not? Am I simply deceived in the very moment?  

Some random thoughts:

• Perhaps if we're not happy doing the right thing, it's because we're not doing it right (e.g. we don't have real intent, charity, or some other thing, which, if we did have, would cause us to be happy in doing what's right).  And, honestly, I'm not sure it counts as righteousness if we're not doing it willingly / with our whole heart / with real intent / whatever.  It might well be better than not doing it, but not good enough to count as righteousness.

See Moroni 7:6 "For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing."

• Perhaps real happiness is not what we (sometimes) think it is - perhaps it has to be learned, so that yes, we are deceived in the very moment, thinking we're happy, when if we understood the truth, we would realize we weren't.

For example: I remember parties at friends' homes wherein some to most of the people eventually were plastered (drunk) beyond sensibility.  They thought they were having fun.  I knew better.  They weren't even being mildly humorous, just really mentally impaired.  (And the next day, they all were miserable and knew it, and had little to no memory of their "fun" evening.)

 

Made up example: Let's say you like shooting.  A friend says he's got an old TV you can shoot at.  So you meet in the middle of nowhere and blow the thing to bits.  You think you were happy.  Later, you find out your "friend" stole that old TV from some poor person who could never afford to replace it.  Your memory of the experience is now tainted, and there's nothing happy about it.  Were you really happy?  (I can understand the argument either way, but I think the eternal perspective is more important than the momentary, and even if you had momentary happiness, you certainly don't have eternal happiness.)  If we had a more eternal perspective, wicked things which appear to make us happy in the moment wouldn't, and when we reach judgement day, any perception of happiness will vanish.

Edited November 30, 2015 by zil

[james12]

Certainly there is a good point here about pleasure vs true happiness. And basically you are telling me that in the very moment I am deceived because I find righteousness hard and pleasure enjoyable, which is completely contrary to the truth. 

 

I guess the surprising thing for me is that sometimes I have told myself that even if righteousness is hard today, I will reap the benefits in some future state. But that is precisely what Elder Cook says is not the case. I must find true happiness now, in this life, or I will never find it in the eternities. Further, the short term happiness (ie. carnal pleasure) I find now is a complete deception of the adversary. I should find misery and pain but instead I find gratification.

 

I'm shocked at how deceived I truly have been, and am even now. For certainly tomorrow I will mistake pleasure for happiness and replace what should be happiness for misery. If only I could see clearly.

[Crypto]

It is important to note that pleasure is not inherently bad.

It is bad when it gratifies the flesh, but harms the spirit.  Just gratifying the flesh without affecting the spirit probably Isn't bad either, but it is best when we strive for those things that uplifted both body and spirit.

[Guest]

My take on this:

 

There is a certain happiness in ignorance.  And unhappiness when wrestling with the acquisition of knowledge that doesn't match one's current state.

 

For example - I was very happy as a Catholic.  My giant clan of family are happy as Catholics.  Drinking at parties, shopping and partying on Sundays, wearing shorty shorts and spaghetti straps, marrying for life, etc. etc.  For all intents and purposes, they are good, happy, people and I was one of them.

 

And then I met my husband... at a club... with him holding a beer in his hand and a cigarette in another.  And I became part of his journey back to his Church.  And I found out about his covenants and the restored gospel and Eternal Families and... all of a sudden I am sitting in agony on the beach wrestling with the conflict of the Great Apostasy.  And I wasn't happy anymore.

 

And then I got baptized.... and I was happy again.  And then I lost a lot of friends and my family did not speak to me for a long time.  And I was sad about that.  But, I was at peace about it.  So, it's not just about this bubbly kind of happy that everything is going my way kind of happy... my happiness is more internal - in the security of the knowledge that I am headed closer to where God wants me to be.  Of course, I still have a lot of unhappiness and conflicts and disturbances of my peace... but looking back to when I was Catholic and to now - it's a big difference.

 

Now, a lot of people who were Mormon and has left the Church recently and are now posting on FB with their fancy mixed alcoholic drinks and Starbucks coffees in a red cup... and rejoicing in their newfound happiness... they have the opposite experience as I have.  I'm not saying they're not happy... I'm simply saying, our happiness is commensurate to our knowledge.  It is when knowledge takes a leap that the unhappiness eats at us.  Just like when we bought these expensive houses very happy that we have a nice home over our heads... then knowledge hits us that those mortgages are actually worthless paper... and we are now prisoners of our negative-equity houses that we can't sell.... if only we heeded the advice of "realists" not to buy houses that cost 30 times our yearly salary.

 

Do you see what I'm saying?

Edited November 30, 2015 by anatess

[MrShorty]

So, if righteousness is happiness, wickedness never was happiness, and it is a myth to believe happiness is delayed until a future state, how come wickedness sometimes appears to make me happy now and righteousness sometimes appears to not?

If I dare appear to contradict an apostle on this forum, I would suggest that the faulty part of this three part premise is the third part - that "delayed gratification" is a myth. Do we really believe that Elder Cook is saying that delayed gratification (and by extension delayed punishment) is a myth? I don't think this can be really, 100% true. There are just too many examples, scriptural and other, that suggest that it is possible for the wicked to appear happy  because of their wicked choices and for the righteous to suffer because of their righteous choices.

[Blackmarch]

those who seek to appease themselves shall lose it, while those that lose themselves in the service of others (esp of god) will find it.

[zil]

I guess the surprising thing for me is that sometimes I have told myself that even if righteousness is hard today, I will reap the benefits in some future state. But that is precisely what Elder Cook says is not the case. I must find true happiness now, in this life, or I will never find it in the eternities.

I do NOT believe this is what Elder Cook is saying.  (I just read the talk.)  He's saying we don't have to wait for the eternities to be happy; we can be happy right now.  Given that mortality is a learning experience, the idea is that we learn not only to do what's right, but to enjoy doing what's right, thus, we have happiness now, and we're that much further along (and happier) in the hereafter.  I expect our eternal happiness is increased by the true happiness we find in mortality, but what we find in mortality is not the only factor in our eternal happiness.  (For example, I'm going to be _really_ happy in the eternities to not have to wear glasses.)  So, just keep striving to learn to love doing what's right.

 

PS (Added later): If you don't nurture the dislike of whatever righteous act you're doing, but rather choose to think of it in as positive a light as you can, eventually, you _will_ reap the benefits, because eventually, your attitude will change as your brain adapts to both the habit of doing the good thing, and the habit of thinking positively about it.

Edited November 30, 2015 by zil

[Guest MormonGator]

I do NOT believe this is what Elder Cook is saying.  (I just read the talk.)  He's saying we don't have to wait for the eternities to be happy; we can be happy right now.

 I totally agree. That's my reading of it too. 

Off topic (but important) -If you live in a first world country, you have no right to call your circumstances "miserable". Go to India or Africa, then if you can go back to the first world and still be miserable, you have issues.  

Happiness is often times a choice 

[zil]

This:

Happiness is often times a choice 

 

...it's one of those things you can say or hear, but until you find a way to make it work for yourself (and I think everyone finds it differently), you won't understand it, and may even roll your eyes at it (thinking of all the very legitimate struggles in your life which seem to keep you from being happy).  I understood it from an intellectual perspective until a few years ago, when I finally received (in answer to prayer) the gift of really, emotionally, spiritually understanding, and have been much, much happier since, by choice.  (And I'm in my 40s - it took me a long time to figure it out / let go enough to receive it.)

[Guest MormonGator]

This:

 

...it's one of those things you can say or hear, but until you find a way to make it work for yourself (and I think everyone finds it differently), you won't understand it, and may even roll your eyes at it (thinking of all the very legitimate struggles in your life which seem to keep you from being happy).  I understood it from an intellectual perspective until a few years ago, when I finally received (in answer to prayer) the gift of really, emotionally, spiritually understanding, and have been much, much happier since, by choice.  (And I'm in my 40s - it took me a long time to figure it out / let go enough to receive it.)

 It took me a long time to figure it out too. I began to think "Gee, people with much less than me are happy. How dare I mope around and be miserable. What an insult to them." 

Also, the blunt truth is that if you are sad and grumpy and complain all the time, you give up your right to say "Why don't people like me?" 

 

And, if you are LDS, what a horrid way to reflect our faith! Being LDS is the greatest thing in the world, and it's provided me with incredible happiness. I owe it to my church and my brothers and sisters to be happy. I would also argue that you do too. Why join a church full of angry and sad people? 

Edited November 30, 2015 by MormonGator

[zil]

 And, if you are LDS, what a horrid way to reflect our faith! Being LDS is the greatest thing in the world, and it's provided me with incredible happiness. I owe it to my church and my brothers and sisters to be happy. I would also argue that you do too. Why join a church full of angry and sad people? 

I agree we have a lot to be happy about.  And your personal statements about how it's the greatest thing in the world, provided you with incredible happiness, your feeling of what you owe, are all good statements, encouraging, even to someone who's currently depressed.

 

(The following is not directed at you or anyone in particular, but the discussion made me remember some things and I'm recounting them here, that's all.)

 

But I'll never be that person who stands up in Sacrament meeting saying, "we should be the happiest people in the world" or "we've got no excuse for being unhappy" or similar generic statements about what other people should or should not feel.  I understand all too well the reality of trials and unhappiness, and it took me a long time to figure out how to choose to be happy in spite of trials.  Statements like those did NOT help when I was feeling lost (if anything, they felt like someone who knew nothing about my situation was telling me my feelings and suffering didn't matter, and oh by the way, there's yet one more thing wrong with me).  So I won't be the one to say them.  (NOTE: I'm not necessarily finding fault with people who say these things, I'm sure they don't intend them to be received as a burden, but knowing they can be, I won't be saying them. Instead, I'll find another route to communicate the same idea...)

 

Instead, we can speak about the specific things we have to be happy about.  Celebration of the gifts and mercies of God, the opportunities and perspective the gospel gives is uplifting, and a positive way to remind someone of the reasons they have to be happy, without dismissing their current feelings.  Pointing out the behaviors which lead to happiness (prayer, scripture study, service, etc.) aren't useless statements about how you ought to feel, but helpful reminders of what you can do to endure and overcome.  Personal experience, without transferring an obligation / implied criticism onto the listener, help us see how these things have helped others and believe they can help us too.

[Vort]

But I'll never be that person who stands up in Sacrament meeting saying, "we should be the happiest people in the world" or "we've got no excuse for being unhappy" or similar generic statements about what other people should or should not feel.

 

Let me quietly point out that something might be true for a group without being true for every member of that group. As a Church, we do have a great deal to be happy about, more than anyone else. As a Church, we probably should be happy, and if we are not, we as a people are either sinful or guilty of ingratitude (a sin).

 

But that doesn't mean each individual member is obligated to be happy. Those who have suffered the loss of a loved one, or who are gravely injured or in pain, or who are depressed or suffering from other psychological ills, may not be happy, and they aren't condemned as unworthy for that fact.

[Guest]

When Joseph was sold into Egypt (because he was being righteous) he was still happy -- as a slave.  When he was cast into prison (because he was being righteous) he was still happy -- as a prisoner.  Then he was finally blessed to be the chief steward of all Egypt (because he was righteous) he was happy -- as master of Egypt.  Do you see a pattern?

 

Was he any happier as master than as a slave or a prisoner?  He was guided by light.  And that light is what filled his soul and provided JOY.  He was sustained by the light of the Lord.  This was something that no one could take away from him

 

The word "happiness" comes from the same root as "happen" and "happenstance".  The meaning was originally that you had good things "happen" to you.  In other words, you were lucky.

 

From a gospel perspective, happiness is not based on what happens to us.  It is not simply luck, or the physical blessings the Lord gives us.  Happiness (or joy) is the feeling of light of God filling our souls.   We seek after it.  We hunger and thirst after it.  We are nourished by it.

 

It is not a question of pleasure, as Le mentioned or even pleasant circumstance.  It is about confidence and lasting peace that can only come from an Eternal perspective and knowledge.  As we embrace that perspective, as our testimonies and hope in Christ grow, we will find lasting joy in this life as well as the life to come.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Guest

[james12]

If I dare appear to contradict an apostle on this forum, I would suggest that the faulty part of this three part premise is the third part - that "delayed gratification" is a myth. Do we really believe that Elder Cook is saying that delayed gratification (and by extension delayed punishment) is a myth? I don't think this can be really, 100% true. There are just too many examples, scriptural and other, that suggest that it is possible for the wicked to appear happy  because of their wicked choices and for the righteous to suffer because of their righteous choices.

I think it is more about the need to understand the rewards. For example choosing to resist evil strengthens us now, not in some future state, so rewards are immediate. Elder Cook says, "From our limited perspective, current temptations and distractions can seem attractive. The rewards for resisting those temptations, on the other hand, can feel distant and unattainable. But a true understanding of the Father's plan reveals that the rewards of righteousness are available right now." Sometimes my problem, and I suspect others problem, is that I do not recognize the reward and so am not happy or at peace the moment I do right. Instead even though I was rewarded with strength, all I see is what I missed.

 

I do NOT believe this is what Elder Cook is saying.  (I just read the talk.)  He's saying we don't have to wait for the eternities to be happy; we can be happy right now.  Given that mortality is a learning experience, the idea is that we learn not only to do what's right, but to enjoy doing what's right, thus, we have happiness now, and we're that much further along (and happier) in the hereafter.  I expect our eternal happiness is increased by the true happiness we find in mortality, but what we find in mortality is not the only factor in our eternal happiness.  (For example, I'm going to be _really_ happy in the eternities to not have to wear glasses.)  So, just keep striving to learn to love doing what's right.

 

PS (Added later): If you don't nurture the dislike of whatever righteous act you're doing, but rather choose to think of it in as positive a light as you can, eventually, you _will_ reap the benefits, because eventually, your attitude will change as your brain adapts to both the habit of doing the good thing, and the habit of thinking positively about it.

I'm not sure where we disagree, perhaps you can clarify. 

[estradling75]

I read on a wall in a shop recently a sign that said  "Gratitude.  Makes what we have enough."  And I think it is highly related to the ability to have happiness and joy now.

[MrShorty]

I think it is more about the need to understand the rewards. For example choosing to resist evil strengthens us now, not in some future state, so rewards are immediate. Elder Cook says, "From our limited perspective, current temptations and distractions can seem attractive. The rewards for resisting those temptations, on the other hand, can feel distant and unattainable. But a true understanding of the Father's plan reveals that the rewards of righteousness are available right now." Sometimes my problem, and I suspect others problem, is that I do not recognize the reward and so am not happy or at peace the moment I do right. Instead even though I was rewarded with strength, all I see is what I missed.

 

Interesting clarification. Where we started using the word "happiness", now we have clarified it to be "rewards". I tend to believe that choosing righteousness over wickedness always returns something positive (a "reward" might be as good a word as any). This reward often includes a feeling of "happiness", but not always. It may include "strength", or any number of other positives (whether I can immediately see the positive or not). In the end, that should all increase my long term "happiness", but it may not be immediately apparent to my mortal mind, or there may be a period of decreased "happiness".

 

Edited December 1, 2015 by MrShorty

[zil]

I'm not sure where we disagree, perhaps you can clarify. 

Perhaps we don't disagree.  From the bit of your post that I quoted, I got the impression that you didn't think there would be an eternal reward for doing good things that you find hard to do here in mortality.  I don't think Elder Cook was saying that.

 

"I don't have to _wait_ to be happy" is not the same as "I won't be happy there unless I learn to be happy here".  I think Elder Cook was saying the first.  As for the second:

 

You wrote: "I must find true happiness now, in this life, or I will never find it in the eternities."  While that may be true in a broad, all-inclusive sense (you must find some true happiness in some righteous things here or you'll never find any true happiness in the eternities), I don't think it's true in specific instances.  For example: the previous statement about wearing glasses (I'm certain I don't need to be happy about needing glasses in mortality before I'll get happiness about not needing them in the eternities); or, maybe I've managed to learn to love sharing the gospel, but I haven't learned to love cleaning the church building - I don't think I'll be denied any eternal happiness just cuz I haven't figured out how to enjoy vacuuming the church - it's just something I'll work out later.

 

As for eternal rewards, try this blog post.  (Fixed that link.)

Edited December 1, 2015 by zil

[zil]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I'm re-reading this talk, paying closer attention this time.  Paragraph 2 (which you quoted), I think, is directed at the idea that religious service requires suffering.  There are people out there (ascetics) who believe that we must deny ourselves all forms of earthly comfort, and even (for some) inflict suffering on ourselves, in order to "deny yourself".  The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't teach that.  But we should also not believe anything like it - yes, there's guaranteed to be trials and suffering, that doesn't mean we have to go looking for them, nor that we need to be miserable during them.

 

It's interesting that he links this paragraph to 2 Nephi 28, which talks about churches in the latter days saying "eat, drink, and be merry..." - as if these are the only forms of happiness on earth, and the alternative is to not be happy.  Both ideas (asceticism and this) are false.

 

Elder Cook writes, "Happiness in this life and happiness in the life to come are interconnected by righteousness." (One doesn't lead to or limit the other, both are results of and connected through righteousness.)

 

He also references the sermon on the mount (Matthew 5) wherein we find a very interesting command:

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

We need to remember that the concept that righteousness is happiness comes from Heavenly Father and His view is eternal.

Being righteous is not a guarantee of happiness in this life. Look to the scriptures to Job, to Abinidi, to Joseph Smith, the early pioneers. Being happy in THIS life is not guaranteed.

But if you consider an eternal prospective as the Lord does, then yes righteousness will always equal happiness and wickedness will always equal misery.

Perspective.

[Vort]

One of the great insights of my adult life has been that we are currently living our life in eternity. We are "in mortality" and thus cannot experience the entire scope of eternal life, but if we are living worthy, we can experience much of it. If we are sealed in an eternal marriage, we can enjoy many of the fruits of that eternal marriage now. We do not need to wait until we are resurrected, or even dead, to enjoy those blessings, at least in part.

 

The gospel makes us happy now, not just in the eternities. For years or even decades, I sort of lazily thought that my keeping of chastity in my youth was some sort of sacrifice on my part, to be rewarded in the eternities. And I suppose it was a sacrifice of sorts, and I suppose it will be rewarded in the eternities. But what I failed to realize for many years was that I was being blessed right at the time for my chastity. Sex changes people in a deep and spiritual way. If you engage in bad sexual conduct, it changes you for the worse. Can you repent? Of course. Can you be perfectly healed? Yep. But as a rule, it's better to avoid getting injured than to get healed up.

[LeSellers]

You are responsible for your own happiness.

One of our sons and his children wrote a list: The five rules of happiness:

1) Love

2) Laughter

3) Gratitude

4) Work

5) Forgiveness

If you are unhappy, I strongly suggest gratitude. It is impossible to be grateful and unhappy.

Lehi

Edited December 2, 2015 by LeSellers

[Laniston]

Also don't forget that part of our test here on Earth is to be enticed by righteousness and wickedness.  While we know wickedness leads ultimately to misery, there needs to be an enticing quality to it.  There is real enjoyment to sin, and a temporary kind of satisfaction or pleasure, so that it is actually attractive enough for people to choose it.  If sin were obviously awful it would be an unfair test.  Always, whatever enjoyment or "happiness" that comes from sin is a counterfeit to the true and lasting happiness only possible through righteousness.