Reasons To Get Excommunicated

[bunnzy]

My well-meaning mother has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a candidate for excommunication. I had never heard of this.

Is this really a legitimate reason for excommunication?

What other reasons are there for excommunication?

[Gabelma]

My well-meaning mother has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a candidate for excommunication. I had never heard of this.

Is this really a legitimate reason for excommunication?

What other reasons are there for excommunication?

Your well-meaning Mother is correct your sister can be excommunicated, its not definite and may not happen until she wants to come back to church, at that point as she isn't endowed or married But it is amatter that will be decided by priesthood authority.

Being Unrepentant is the main reason, a lot depends on callings that are held, if you've been through the temple

Usual ones are:

Chastity issues

Taking a life

And preaching false doctrine.

-Charley

[pam]

To add to the above:

Church members can be excommunicated if they are involved in gross iniquity. Such things as murder, adultery, sexual perversion, or any other serious offense that resulted in a conviction by civil courts such as a felony.

Any one that advocates or is involved in polygamy

Church members can be excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings. Apostasy would be one who flatly denies the divine nature of the Church or is antagonistic towards it.

[sixpacktr]

Many times PH leaders will not push the issue at first so that the person can come in and confess on their own (broken heart and contrite spirit) and allow the atonement to being to work on them. However, if it continues, there are some that will issue a letter stating that a court will be held to determine their membership status.

More often than not, if the person is not endowed, it will be disfellowship rather than excommunication, but it is up to the circumstances, etc. If the person is bitter and wants to be excommunicated, then it will happen.

Now, if the person is endowed, it is a whole different ballgame...

[pam]

Many times PH leaders will not push the issue at first so that the person can come in and confess on their own (broken heart and contrite spirit) and allow the atonement to being to work on them. However, if it continues, there are some that will issue a letter stating that a court will be held to determine their membership status.

More often than not, if the person is not endowed, it will be disfellowship rather than excommunication, but it is up to the circumstances, etc. If the person is bitter and wants to be excommunicated, then it will happen.

Now, if the person is endowed, it is a whole different ballgame...

A question for you six. Something I've always wondered. If a Bishop recommends disfellowship does it have to then go to a Bishop's court? Or is this something the Bishop can do on his own?

[sixpacktr]

Those of you that have served in Bishoprics, pls correct me if I am wrong:

Pam, I believe that disfellowship requires a court. A Bishop has 4 tools at his discretion to help someone repent and be forgiven in the eyes of the church:

Informal Probation

Formal Probation

Disfellowship

Excommunication

The first 2 do not show up in a member's record, the other 2 do. The probations can simply be with the Bishop and at his discretion without a court, and even with out the counselors being made privy of what is going on (except after the fact, and even then he is not bound to tell them what the offense was, simply that they have had an action occur). The other two require a court, because it does become part of the record. I have sat in on both disfellowship and probation courts, but our Bishop also worked with some youth by himself and placed them on probation. It is up to him, really.

Probation is recorded, but only at a Stake level. Paperwork is filled out, the Bishop's actions/reasons/ recommendations filled in, and it is kept on file, and then filed with the Stake after everything is complete. But it is not part of a permanent file, so to speak.

[pam]

Thanks Six. I was always curious as to what level a court is required.

[Doctor Steuss]

Just a quick thought on excommunication. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion.

[Guest Yediyd]

Just a quick thought on excommunication. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion.

How so? Can you elaborate?

[Buzzyboy]

All you who speak so authoritatively on the excommunication topic, explain this:

a friend of mine was an adulterer, boozer, and liar. He was called to be a stake high counsellor. He admitted to his SP his past deeds. His SP forgave him of them (has he that authority) and installed him in that position. My friend later became a bishop. And even later became an alcoholic, drug abuser, prescription forger. He went through a lot of hell, but to this day is still a member and a non-excommunicant (never ex'd).

Another acquaintance was ex'd for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be elders quorum president.

Sounds like a bit of revelation/inspiration inconsistency here. But you authorities on the subject have an answer I'm sure.

[checkerboy]

Hey I just wanted to put in my two cents. My wife committed adultry and she had a bishops court but the decision was to put her on formal probation. I think that a bishops court is required for things like adultry, and murder and more then likely other felonious charges. But the decision is made after the court meets. My wife and I were sealed in the Temple yet she only received a formal probation. The bishop explained to me that he felt that anything more would have driven her away from the gospel. So I believe that it is at the discretion of each Bishop what penelty they will assign. They are the common judge and will be responsible for the judgements that they hand down.

[sixpacktr]

All you who speak so authoritatively on the excommunication topic, explain this:

a friend of mine was an adulterer, boozer, and liar. He was called to be a stake high counsellor. He admitted to his SP his past deeds. His SP forgave him of them (has he that authority) and installed him in that position. My friend later became a bishop. And even later became an alcoholic, drug abuser, prescription forger. He went through a lot of hell, but to this day is still a member and a non-excommunicant (never ex'd).

Another acquaintance was ex'd for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be elders quorum president.

Sounds like a bit of revelation/inspiration inconsistency here. But you authorities on the subject have an answer I'm sure.

My oh my, so bitter. And so sure of what is happening inside the walls of a Bishop's/SP's office so that you can make the decision yourself...

Checkerboy was right. It is up to the discretion of the presiding authority. And yes, revelation plays a big part of it.

But go ahead, bash away. I'm sure that your anger and cynicism is very justified...

[Doctor Steuss]

<div class='quotemain'> Just a quick thought on excommunication. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion.

How so? Can you elaborate?

Covenants are essentially nullified, thus lessening accountability.

[Jason]

What other reasons are there for excommunication?

Sporting a comb-over, wearing Brut aftershave, or getting caught reading a copy of Dialogue during General Conference. B)

[StrawberryFields]

Those of you that have served in Bishoprics, pls correct me if I am wrong:

Pam, I believe that disfellowship requires a court. A Bishop has 4 tools at his discretion to help someone repent and be forgiven in the eyes of the church:

Informal Probation

Formal Probation

Disfellowship

Excommunication

The first 2 do not show up in a member's record, the other 2 do. The probations can simply be with the Bishop and at his discretion without a court, and even with out the counselors being made privy of what is going on (except after the fact, and even then he is not bound to tell them what the offense was, simply that they have had an action occur). The other two require a court, because it does become part of the record. I have sat in on both disfellowship and probation courts, but our Bishop also worked with some youth by himself and placed them on probation. It is up to him, really.

Probation is recorded, but only at a Stake level. Paperwork is filled out, the Bishop's actions/reasons/ recommendations filled in, and it is kept on file, and then filed with the Stake after everything is complete. But it is not part of a permanent file, so to speak.

Great Topic BTW.

The first two... how do they differ and who is ones membership changed? Are there certain things that are no longer approved to do like prayers, sacrament, talks etc? Also is there a time frame, is there follow up required?

[Buzzyboy]

<div class='quotemain'>

All you who speak so authoritatively on the excommunication topic, explain this:

a friend of mine was an adulterer, boozer, and liar. He was called to be a stake high counsellor. He admitted to his SP his past deeds. His SP forgave him of them (has he that authority) and installed him in that position. My friend later became a bishop. And even later became an alcoholic, drug abuser, prescription forger. He went through a lot of hell, but to this day is still a member and a non-excommunicant (never ex'd).

Another acquaintance was ex'd for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be elders quorum president.

Sounds like a bit of revelation/inspiration inconsistency here. But you authorities on the subject have an answer I'm sure.

My oh my, so bitter. And so sure of what is happening inside the walls of a Bishop's/SP's office so that you can make the decision yourself...

Checkerboy was right. It is up to the discretion of the presiding authority. And yes, revelation plays a big part of it.

But go ahead, bash away. I'm sure that your anger and cynicism is very justified...

[sixpacktr]

So cute, Sixpactr. Just the kind of moronic response and spin I expected.

Thanks for the laugh. And good comeback. Must have taken a lot of thought, that one...

<div class='quotemain'>

Those of you that have served in Bishoprics, pls correct me if I am wrong:

Pam, I believe that disfellowship requires a court. A Bishop has 4 tools at his discretion to help someone repent and be forgiven in the eyes of the church:

Informal Probation

Formal Probation

Disfellowship

Excommunication

The first 2 do not show up in a member's record, the other 2 do. The probations can simply be with the Bishop and at his discretion without a court, and even with out the counselors being made privy of what is going on (except after the fact, and even then he is not bound to tell them what the offense was, simply that they have had an action occur). The other two require a court, because it does become part of the record. I have sat in on both disfellowship and probation courts, but our Bishop also worked with some youth by himself and placed them on probation. It is up to him, really.

Probation is recorded, but only at a Stake level. Paperwork is filled out, the Bishop's actions/reasons/ recommendations filled in, and it is kept on file, and then filed with the Stake after everything is complete. But it is not part of a permanent file, so to speak.

Great Topic BTW.

The first two... how do they differ and who is ones membership changed? Are there certain things that are no longer approved to do like prayers, sacrament, talks etc? Also is there a time frame, is there follow up required?

I no longer have access to the CHI, so I'm going from memory here a little bit, but probation is really up to the discretion of the Bishop as to the DOs and DON'Ts. Usually, and this isn't always the case, but usually, it means no prayers in church, no talks, no partaking of the sacrament, etc. But again, this is really up to the Bishop. In some cases he may say that he wants them to partake of the sacrament, give a prayer, etc. It depends upon the spiritual needs of the person.

I'm going to redact a bit of what I said before. I think that only formal probation is recorded and sent on to the Stake. I think that informal is just between the Bishop and the member (althought counselors are sometimes present, especially if that is the finding of the Bishop's court), and there is no written record that exists, but I'm a tad fuzzy on that now...

[StrawberryFields]

Thanks for your reply Sixpacktr.... How did you come up with that name anyway....

[tiancum]

Ok quick question,

Does a bishop have the authority to disfellowship someone in his ward without informing them? Or even holding a council?

Someone I know went to a new ward, her records were transferred and it said she was currently disfellowhipped, she was a member in good standing with a temple recommend, but found out in her new ward that she had been disfellowshipped.

[sixpacktr]

Thanks for your reply Sixpacktr.... How did you come up with that name anyway....

From my fabulous abs???

Nah. More like 'onepack'

From a predeliction towards 'adult beverages'???

Nah. Never have once touched the stuff.

Actually, it is the slang for a 6 cylinder car, namely a 1968 Triumph TR250. the 1st 6 cylinder car they made. Triumph has a club called '6pack' referring to TR250s and TR6s, and I borrowed it years ago when I made my email account...

Ok quick question,

Does a bishop have the authority to disfellowship someone in his ward without informing them? Or even holding a council?

Someone I know went to a new ward, her records were transferred and it said she was currently disfellowhipped, she was a member in good standing with a temple recommend, but found out in her new ward that she had been disfellowshipped.

A court has to occur for a disfellowship. HOWEVER, if the person accused does not show up, then the court will be held without their presence.

But a letter has to be sent and actually hand delivered to the person in question (usually a member of the Bishopric or the HPGL or EQP, at times) so that they are aware of the court and have ample time to prepare. In fact, a letter has to go out for any court, as far as I remember. It is a way to avoid people claiming they didn't know about the court.

Not being in your friend's last ward or privy to what happened, I'd be amiss to even conjecture what happened...

[the Ogre]

Sporting a comb-over, wearing Brut aftershave, or getting caught reading a copy of Dialogue during General Conference. B)

LOL

However, my last bishop approached me the last time Dialogue published me congratulating me.

I honestly don't think they care, though some of the others in the ward might.

Aaron the Ogre

[Annabelli]

My well-meaning mother has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a candidate for excommunication. I had never heard of this.

Is this really a legitimate reason for excommunication?

What other reasons are there for excommunication?

In the USA, a "one night stand" is considered a "common-law marriage." There is a great deal of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services.

Since you are not in the U.S., you need to ascertain that information about your country.

[Gwen]

<div class='quotemain'>

My well-meaning mother has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a candidate for excommunication. I had never heard of this.

Is this really a legitimate reason for excommunication?

What other reasons are there for excommunication?

In the USA, a "one night stand" is considered a "common-law marriage." There is a great deal of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services.

Since you are not in the U.S., you need to ascertain that information about your country.

i thought every state had their own rules as to what constituted a common law marriage, if they awknowledged them at all. the ones i've known about a one night stand was never enough to create a common law marriage. there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. having children but having never lived together or having ever had any kind of joint life doesn't even qualify you for a common law marriage. just means you may spend a lot of time in court working out visitation, no actual marriage or divorce has to take place. but that is just what i've always been told on the subject, could be wrong.

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

My well-meaning mother has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a candidate for excommunication. I had never heard of this.

Is this really a legitimate reason for excommunication?

What other reasons are there for excommunication?

In the USA, a "one night stand" is considered a "common-law marriage." There is a great deal of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services.

Since you are not in the U.S., you need to ascertain that information about your country.

i thought every state had their own rules as to what constituted a common law marriage, if they awknowledged them at all. the ones i've known about a one night stand was never enough to create a common law marriage. there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. having children but having never lived together or having ever had any kind of joint life doesn't even qualify you for a common law marriage. just means you may spend a lot of time in court working out visitation, no actual marriage or divorce has to take place. but that is just what i've always been told on the subject, could be wrong.

What AlMom said. I had thought it was 7 years together and it was considered 'common law'...

[Jason]

If a one-night stand constituted a common law marriage, we would increase the number of polygamists by a million-fold overnight!