Non-Homeschooled Kids

[Guest]

I've never heard of this happening anywhere.  But it is interesting.

We live in a ward where over 50% of the kids are homeschooled.  A primary teacher expressed to Mrs. Carb that the children who are not homeschooled get the impression that because they are not homeschooled, their parents don't love them.  I don't know what to say about that.

I do know that we tell our children that because we care about their up-bringing that we're not going to let a stranger raise them in a school.  Maybe this got transferred and possibly magnified to the non-homeschooled children.

Is this something we're supposed to feel guilty about or something?  Am I making more out of this than it is?  Should something be done about this?

Thoughts?

Edited June 29, 2016 by Guest

[SpiritDragon]

This reminds me of listening to Dr. Joel Fuhrman talk about raising his kids eating a nutrient dense diet for optimal health. His kids were known to see other kids eating doughnuts and other junk food and asking their dad why people would let their kids do that - don't their parents love them? Why would they put them at risk of diabetes and heart disease and future cancers by eating this poison - He'd explain that it wasn't that their parents didn't love them but that they didn't know better, or at least didn't appreciate the importance of it enough to change.

I'd suggest that the kids that are not homeschooled have parents that either cannot homeshool, believe the public school system (or private/chartered school I suppose) is better for their family situation and good enough - possibly even better than if they homeschooled - not everyone is cut out to be a teacher.

Now as for feeling bad about the situation - I think it's normal to feel a little bad, but you shouldn't really. It's almost as if you're feeling bad because you're kids are secure in why they are doing what they're doing and feel bad that they are while others are not. This seems almost like survivors regret, where you wish you'd not been the one to survive a catastrophic event because others didn't.

As for helping other kids in the ward to feel more loved by their parents? That is largely their parents responsibility to sort out. Do the other parents know that their children feel this way?

[Backroads]

Eh, they're kids. Unless there is overt bullying going on about it I'd just let the kids figure it out themselves. I guarantee the other kids know they are loved.

[Just_A_Guy]

To me, it's the same thing as living in a ward where fifty percent of the parents have bought their kid a pony.

Some parents have the resources to do that sort of thing, others don't.  It doesn't mean that some parents love their kids more than others; it just means that life's not fair.

[Guest]

If you listen to some of the posters on this forum, those of us who do not homeschool our children are lazy, unloving, irresponsible good-for-nothings who should absolutely feel guilty for our choices. 

[The Folk Prophet]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

A primary teacher expressed to Mrs. Carb that the children who are not homeschooled get the impression that because they are not homeschooled, their parents don't love them.

I actually lol'ed at this. It's funny because it's obviously likely true. And not surprising. It is human nature. Not good. Quite sad, actually. But not surprising.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Backroads said:

Eh, they're kids. Unless there is overt bullying going on about it I'd just let the kids figure it out themselves. I guarantee the other kids know they are loved.

Or unless it's being propagated by the parent's superiority complexes, which is also likely. Anyone, therefore, who home-schools, might therefore address the issue head on with their own kids.

[Just_A_Guy]

15 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I actually lol'ed at this. It's funny because it's obviously likely true. And not surprising. It is human nature. Not good. Quite sad, actually. But not surprising.

You mean, it's true that the children have that impression; or it's true that their parents don't actually love them as much? 

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

You mean, it's true that the children have that impression; or it's true that their parents don't actually love them as much? 

Ha ha!

Clearly the 2nd. 

[Just_A_Guy]

TFP, yesterday was a long day for me so I can't quite tell if you're being facetious or not.  My apologies. 

[Backroads]

13 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Or unless it's being propagated by the parent's superiority complexes, which is also likely. Anyone, therefore, who home-schools, might therefore address the issue head on with their own kids.

I could see this. Folks saying "of course they're just as good as us and we won't judge them but STILL..."

 

I also wonder if through Primary teacher is overly sensitive to the matter.

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

TFP, yesterday was a long day for me so I can't quite tell if you're being facetious or not.  My apologies. 

Doesn't the post immediately following (my reply to Backroads) make it plain?

For your long day tiredness I'll be explicit with no sarcasm, facetiousness, etc.

I mean that it is obvious that kids are going to likely rank each other, bully each other, mistreat each other, and compete on things like who's parents love them most. Because, as stated by Backroads...eh, kids.

Edited June 29, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest MormonGator]

50 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

If you listen to some of the posters on this forum, those of us who do not homeschool our children are lazy, unloving, irresponsible good-for-nothings who should absolutely feel guilty for our choices. 

 So true Eowyn.  

Edited June 29, 2016 by MormonGator

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Is this something we're supposed to feel guilty about or something?  Am I making more out of this than it is?  Should something be done about this?

Thoughts?

No. Probably. Not by you. Occasionally.

[Vort]

40 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

To me, it's the same thing as living in a ward where fifty percent of the parents have bought their kid a pony.

Some parents have the resources to do that sort of thing, others don't.  It doesn't mean that some parents love their kids more than others; it just means that life's not fair.

I agree and disagree. I do not think that I love my children more than any other ward members love theirs, and I don't think the fact that I homeschool indicates any such thing (necessarily -- frankly, in some cases it well might). But we do not homeschool because we are rich; we are anything but. Being a one-income household has required us to sacrifice the common American ideals of prosperity and live on a comparative shoestring. Make no mistake; homeschooling has been a sacrifice. But it is a sacrifice in the best and most ennobling meaning of the word: Making something sacred by giving up another desirable thing of lesser value.

Frankly, I very firmly believe that many parents could homeschool their children if they were willing to sacrifice attractive but unnecessary things, like a second income, free time, and so forth. And I believe that many of those children would benefit, sometimes greatly, by such an action. But I do not condemn those parents because I assume they are trying to do what they are supposed to do. I fail often, seemingly incessantly, at doing the "Best" all the time. If I am to be judged by "doing my best", I will surely be damned. So I am in no hurry to judge others on what may (or may not) be the best option for them. But that doesn't mean homeschooling would not be greatly beneficial for their children and even for the parents. In many cases, I'm sure it would be.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

I agree and disagree. I do not think that I love my children more than any other ward members love theirs, and I don't think the fact that I homeschool indicates any such thing (necessarily -- frankly, in some cases it well might). But we do not homeschool because we are rich; we are anything but. Being a one-income household has required us to sacrifice the common American ideals of prosperity and live on a comparative shoestring. Make no mistake; homeschooling has been a sacrifice. But it is a sacrifice in the best and most ennobling meaning of the word: Making something sacred by giving up another desirable thing of lesser value.

Frankly, I very firmly believe that many parents could homeschool their children if they were willing to sacrifice attractive but unnecessary things, like a second income, free time, and so forth. And I believe that many of those children would benefit, sometimes greatly, by such an action. But I do not condemn those parents because I assume they are trying to do what they are supposed to do. I fail often, seemingly incessantly, at doing the "Best" all the time. If I am to be judged by "doing my best", I will surely be damned. So I am in no hurry to judge others on what may (or may not) be the best option for them. But that doesn't mean homeschooling would not be greatly beneficial for their children and even for the parents. In many cases, I'm sure it would be.

Sounds like you have a very good attitude about both homeschooling and those who don't homeschool, Vort.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sounds like you have a very good attitude about both homeschooling and those who don't homeschool, Vort.

No, No, No.  All homeschoolers are inbred, ignorant, xenophobes, who want to abandon society.  And all public schoolers are materialistic lazy parents who don't love their kids.

All clear?

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

No, No, No.  All homeschoolers are inbred, ignorant, xenophobes, who want to abandon society.  And all public schoolers are materialistic lazy parents who don't love their kids.

All clear?

LOL! Got it. That's awesome. 

[NeuroTypical]

Heh - this is an interesting bit of news.  When we started homeschooling a decade ago, we were the nutjobs who didn't value the right things in society, wasted our time through duplicating effort.  We were viewed suspiciously as people who were going to harm our children socially, making decisions from a position of clueless "new mommy" selfishness or maybe even mental illness.  And these opinions were just those coming from family and friends.  

Spent a decade giving people links to read and debunking myths.  So totally easy to debunk.  We got a bumper sticker that said "Danger - unsocialized homeschoolers on board!"   I started seeing the envy in kids' eyes when they found out my kids were homeschooled.  When talking with parents who send their kids to public school, I started seeing defensiveness and guilt and shame just show up out of nowhere.  Now I hear this news story.  I figure homeschoolers have won our place in (at least) American culture.

For the record - I'm totally fine with parents who send their kids to school.  There are plenty of good schools out there - it remains an entirely appropriate choice for millions of parents.  Additionally, I totally believe that homeschooling is NOT for everyone.  It is true that you can succeed at homeschooling even if you're poorly educated, poor, and even a single parent.  But there are things you do need.  You need to like to spend a lot (and I mean a lot) of time, every day, with your kids, week after week, with no breaks ever.  This is more than giving up free time, more than a hobby, because you can't set it down for a few months and go do something else. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[anatess2]

I don't homeschool because the schools that my children go to is the best option for children (I would recommend it to anybody) supplemented by my teaching at home.

Therefore, I love my kids more than anybody and my kids know it. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by anatess2

[Just_A_Guy]

40 minutes ago, Vort said:

I agree and disagree. I do not think that I love my children more than any other ward members love theirs, and I don't think the fact that I homeschool indicates any such thing (necessarily -- frankly, in some cases it well might). But we do not homeschool because we are rich; we are anything but. Being a one-income household has required us to sacrifice the common American ideals of prosperity and live on a comparative shoestring. Make no mistake; homeschooling has been a sacrifice. But it is a sacrifice in the best and most ennobling meaning of the word: Making something sacred by giving up another desirable thing of lesser value.

Frankly, I very firmly believe that many parents could homeschool their children if they were willing to sacrifice attractive but unnecessary things, like a second income, free time, and so forth. And I believe that many of those children would benefit, sometimes greatly, by such an action. But I do not condemn those parents because I assume they are trying to do what they are supposed to do. I fail often, seemingly incessantly, at doing the "Best" all the time. If I am to be judged by "doing my best", I will surely be damned. So I am in no hurry to judge others on what may (or may not) be the best option for them. But that doesn't mean homeschooling would not be greatly beneficial for their children and even for the parents. In many cases, I'm sure it would be.

Very fair point; but when I spoke of "resources" I didn't just mean money.  In our family, for example, Just_A_Girl is a stay-at-home mom; but given some health challenges and various church and extended family commitments she faces, she just doesn't have the wherewithal to keep doing all the other things she does while still giving our five kids a home-schooling education of superior quality to what they could get in our local public school (and it's not like Utah County public schools are complete war zones or bastions of raging progressivism at the moment, anyways).

And frankly, we've both taught in the primary quite a bit, and our experience is that three times out of five the homeschooled kids are significantly behind where they ought to be in terms of reading ability, abstract thinking, social skills/behavior, etc.  I could also name you a Utah libertarian writer/social media personality who was in our ward for a while some years back; and from our mutual Facebook acquaintances I'm pretty sure that you, Vort, and NeuroTypical would both find his name at least vaguely familiar.  He's a great guy and is very pro-home-schooling, having been home-schooled himself--but what he won't tell you is that when he tried applied for admission at BYU, they discovered that his math skills were at approximately a fourth-grade level (he couldn't do long division) and his public-school-educated wife had to tutor him extensively just to get him up to speed for the admissions process.

So IMHO, if you're not 100% sure that you are going to home school your kids well--you're better off not doing it at all; and there's no shame in that.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[anatess2]

25 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Very fair point; but when I spoke of "resources" I didn't just mean money.  In our family, for example, Just_A_Girl is a stay-at-home mom; but given some health challenges and various church and extended family commitments she faces, she just doesn't have the wherewithal to keep doing all the other things she does while still giving our five kids a home-schooling education of superior quality to what they could get in our local public school (and it's not like Utah County public schools are complete war zones or bastions of raging progressivism at the moment, anyways).

And frankly, we've both taught in the primary quite a bit, and our experience is that three times out of five the homeschooled kids are significantly behind where they ought to be in terms of reading ability, abstract thinking, social skills/behavior, etc.  I could also name you a relatively well-known (in Utah circles) libertarian writer/social media personality who was in our ward for a while some years back.  He's a great guy and is very pro-home-schooling, having been home-schooled himself--but what he won't tell you is that when he tried to do some supplemental course work at BYU, they discovered that his math skills were at approximately a fourth-grade level (he couldn't do long division) and his public-school-educated wife had to tutor him extensively just to get him up to speed.

So IMHO, if you're not 100% sure that you are going to home school your kids well--you're better off not doing it at all; and there's no shame in that.

 

SCHOOL CHOICE is critical.  Florida has school choice.  We have college-prep schools, arts schools, science and technology schools, agricultural schools, medical schools, even a beauty school - all part of the K-12 Public School System ... there's a K-12 Montessori, a K-12 online school program (for homeschoolers to still be connected with the Public School System), several IB high schools, and several parent-run K-12 charters, and even a self-paced school (not just for Special Ed... this is also chosen by children in extensive medical care, like chemo patients and such).  Those who don't choose any of these schools go to their neighborhood schools.

I spent a lot of time researching each of these options in addition to the private schools and the home school option.  I mapped out an educational path for my children before they set foot in Kindergarten and we fought tooth and nail to get them placed in the school we targeted for them to be in.  Then when one of the schools didn't work as promised for my child, I fought the teacher, then the principal, and then went all the way to the president of the School Board.  When they couldn't give me a good enough answer, I pulled my kid out of the school, put him in a private school until he got placed in the better-fitted Public School.

Then I supplemented their schooling with my instruction at home (especially in Math and Civics).

I tell ya, my kids and I worked hard for their education in the Public School System.  If somebody in the ward (or anywhere) would tell them that they're not loved as much because they're not homeschooled, they'll laugh their heads off.

Edited June 29, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

18 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I tell ya, my kids and I worked hard for their education in the Public School System.  If somebody in the ward (or anywhere) would tell them that they're not loved as much because they're not homeschooled, they'll laugh their heads off.

They should. I'm sure your kids are all fantastic and you are a great mom/teacher/etc. 

Taking your kids out of the mix, do you know any other homeschooling families?

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

No, No, No.  All homeschoolers are inbred, ignorant, xenophobes, who want to abandon society.  And all public schoolers are materialistic lazy parents who don't love their kids.

All clear?

You can both be lazy and still love your kids though, right?

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

 You need to like to spend a lot (and I mean a lot) of time, every day, with your kids, week after week, with no breaks ever.  This is more than giving up free time, more than a hobby, because you can't set it down for a few months and go do something else. 

To be fair...in our home it is my wife who needs to be willing to do this as I am going to be at work when my children are in school, public or home.

Bless my wife's heart and sweet, willing, unselfish, wonderful soul.

(And yes, I am calling any who don't homeschool nasty, unwilling, selfish, and horrible...

 

 

...kidding )

 

 

Anyhooow...

 

It does change the thought on things a bit to consider this. It is, fairly, very easy for me to say, "Oh...yeah, let's home school. Public schools are evil. Blah-diddly blah blah..." when I get to head off to work every day.

Edited June 29, 2016 by The Folk Prophet