Gospel Principles

[An Investigator]

Hi,

Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions,  at the minute I'm currently enrolled in the Gospel Principles class.  Im the only one in the class, their is me, two Elders and two brothers who are quite a bit older then me.   the two brothers are good teachers but to be honest it's abit dull.. I think the reason might be as their is only me in the class so there isn't really much of a debate going on.

Does anyone have any suggestions I could make to jazz it up abit. I don't want to offend anyone or anything.  

[zil]

In my experience, they don't tell the regular members about the Gospel Principles class (presumably because it's only held when needed).  I find it downright shocking that they didn't invite a sister to come to that class with you! That would be the first thing I would suggest - ask them to get a sister or two to balance out all those men (or invite a sister or two yourself - there are no hard rules in this regard, anyone could come join you).  I'm sure there's at least one sister who wouldn't mind switching Sunday School class.

Next, I would read the next lesson before you come, and come with at least one question to ask, and ask it as soon as possible (keep your hand in the air long enough and eventually they'll have to let you speak ).

(Pause while I rant to my brother, who's on the phone, about the insanity of the four men and one new convert woman ratio.  He suggests we try to figure out who your bishop is and send him an email. )

If you look at the Gospel Principles manual online, each chapter can have related videos, talks, and articles over on the right side of the page.  If you have a tablet / smartphone, you could download the video to your device and suggest you view it as part of the lesson.

Just for fun, at some point in the lesson, you could say the following phrase, and then watch as shocked and confused glances are exchanged: "Oh, just yesterday I was reading something Hugh Nibley said about that in One Eternal Round."  (The book title is important as lies are more believable when specific.  Hugh Nibley, now deceased, was a Mormon apologist and very intelligent man, and most people consider his writings advanced and hard to understand.  I'm assuming most Mormons know the name, even in the UK, and that fewer have actually read all of one of his books than have claimed to.  In other words, they certainly wouldn't expect a new member to know who he is, let alone to be reading his works.)  When you think it's been long enough, you can laugh at their expressions.

Hmm, if you have a decent internet connection there, we could arrange to Skype me into the lesson - I think that would be fun.

Maybe I should let someone else chime in before my suggestions go off the deep end...

[LeSellers]

26 minutes ago, zil said:

Maybe I should let someone else chime in before my suggestions go off the deep end...

Too late.

Lehi

[Sunday21]

39 minutes ago, zil said:

In my experience, they don't tell the regular members about the Gospel Principles class (presumably because it's only held when needed).  I find it downright shocking that they didn't invite a sister to come to that class with you! That would be the first thing I would suggest - ask them to get a sister or two to balance out all those men (or invite a sister or two yourself - there are no hard rules in this regard, anyone could come join you).  I'm sure there's at least one sister who wouldn't mind switching Sunday School class.

Next, I would read the next lesson before you come, and come with at least one question to ask, and ask it as soon as possible (keep your hand in the air long enough and eventually they'll have to let you speak ).

(Pause while I rant to my brother, who's on the phone, about the insanity of the four men and one new convert woman ratio.  He suggests we try to figure out who your bishop is and send him an email. )

If you look at the Gospel Principles manual online, each chapter can have related videos, talks, and articles over on the right side of the page.  If you have a tablet / smartphone, you could download the video to your device and suggest you view it as part of the lesson.

Just for fun, at some point in the lesson, you could say the following phrase, and then watch as shocked and confused glances are exchanged: "Oh, just yesterday I was reading something Hugh Nibley said about that in One Eternal Round."  (The book title is important as lies are more believable when specific.  Hugh Nibley, now deceased, was a Mormon apologist and very intelligent man, and most people consider his writings advanced and hard to understand.  I'm assuming most Mormons know the name, even in the UK, and that fewer have actually read all of one of his books than have claimed to.  In other words, they certainly wouldn't expect a new member to know who he is, let alone to be reading his works.)  When you think it's been long enough, you can laugh at their expressions.

Hmm, if you have a decent internet connection there, we could arrange to Skype me into the lesson - I think that would be fun.

Maybe I should let someone else chime in before my suggestions go off the deep end...

I've just been asked by an investigator to accompany her to Gospel Principles. I had no idea that I was being asked to liven things up! 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, An Investigator said:

Hi,

Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions,  at the minute I'm currently enrolled in the Gospel Principles class.  Im the only one in the class, their is me, two Elders and two brothers who are quite a bit older then me.   the two brothers are good teachers but to be honest it's abit dull.. I think the reason might be as their is only me in the class so there isn't really much of a debate going on.

Does anyone have any suggestions I could make to jazz it up abit. I don't want to offend anyone or anything.  

 Just so you know-you are not alone. A lot of us feel that way in that class. It's incredibly boring, having to sit through it when you've already read the manual was brutal. No, that doesn't mean the church isn't true, no, that doesn't mean that church itself is boring-it just means that that that class yes, is terribly dull. 

[An Investigator]

Thank goodness for that.. Someone at Church said people love the class that much they stay in it for years.  Im going to pull some people to sit in class with me.   Only got until December. I love RS though and I'm reading the institute guide to the BOM at home.   

[zil]

35 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 Just so you know-you are not alone. A lot of us feel that way in that class. It's incredibly boring, having to sit through it when you've already read the manual was brutal. No, that doesn't mean the church isn't true, no, that doesn't mean that church itself is boring-it just means that that that class yes, is terribly dull. 

IMO, your teacher wasn't good if that class wasn't interesting.

[An Investigator]

1 hour ago, zil said:

In my experience, they don't tell the regular members about the Gospel Principles class (presumably because it's only held when needed).  I find it downright shocking that they didn't invite a sister to come to that class with you! That would be the first thing I would suggest - ask them to get a sister or two to balance out all those men (or invite a sister or two yourself - there are no hard rules in this regard, anyone could come join you).  I'm sure there's at least one sister who wouldn't mind switching Sunday School class.

Next, I would read the next lesson before you come, and come with at least one question to ask, and ask it as soon as possible (keep your hand in the air long enough and eventually they'll have to let you speak ).

(Pause while I rant to my brother, who's on the phone, about the insanity of the four men and one new convert woman ratio.  He suggests we try to figure out who your bishop is and send him an email. )

If you look at the Gospel Principles manual online, each chapter can have related videos, talks, and articles over on the right side of the page.  If you have a tablet / smartphone, you could download the video to your device and suggest you view it as part of the lesson.

Just for fun, at some point in the lesson, you could say the following phrase, and then watch as shocked and confused glances are exchanged: "Oh, just yesterday I was reading something Hugh Nibley said about that in One Eternal Round."  (The book title is important as lies are more believable when specific.  Hugh Nibley, now deceased, was a Mormon apologist and very intelligent man, and most people consider his writings advanced and hard to understand.  I'm assuming most Mormons know the name, even in the UK, and that fewer have actually read all of one of his books than have claimed to.  In other words, they certainly wouldn't expect a new member to know who he is, let alone to be reading his works.)  When you think it's been long enough, you can laugh at their expressions.

Hmm, if you have a decent internet connection there, we could arrange to Skype me into the lesson - I think that would be fun.

Maybe I should let someone else chime in before my suggestions go off the deep end...

Haha at Skype 

Ummm yes brother.. An interesting question,  when I was reading One Eternal round by Hugh Nibley, that thought completely crossed my mind.

 

I refer to my Sunday school lessons as a Mormon job interview haha 

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, zil said:

IMO, your teacher wasn't good if that class wasn't interesting.

  True, a good teacher can make any topic somewhat enjoyable. 

[Guest]

There aren't ward missionaries attending?

[An Investigator]

I don't know if we have any.. Our ward is probably quite small by American standards.

[tesuji]

5 hours ago, An Investigator said:

Hi,

Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions,  at the minute I'm currently enrolled in the Gospel Principles class.  Im the only one in the class, their is me, two Elders and two brothers who are quite a bit older then me.   the two brothers are good teachers but to be honest it's abit dull.. I think the reason might be as their is only me in the class so there isn't really much of a debate going on.

Does anyone have any suggestions I could make to jazz it up abit. I don't want to offend anyone or anything.  

What you're describing is truly sad. The Gospel Principles manual is one of my favorite things to read - it presents the gospel in its beautiful simplicity.

A few ideas:

Sincerely pray to invite the Spirit. When you feel the Holy Spirit, the gospel comes alive and you always feel and/or learn something significant. It's never boring when you feel the Spirit.

Humbly and carefully read what is in the lesson carefully, including the supporting scriptures.

Look deeper into what is being said. Ponder it. The things being taught are profound and amazing, if you understand and think about them.

Ask questions. The teacher should be asking questions. This is the best way to make learning interesting. Maybe the teacher thinks it's all so simple and he/she knows the answers, that it's a boring class. No, it's not, if you dig into it.

Participate - answer questions, share your insights, etc

Listen to general conference talks on the same topic as the lesson.

At the very least, listen and learn all you can. Sometimes that's all you can do in a class if it's poorly taught and made boring. And sometimes you don't realize how amazing the gospel until you understand the basics first. So you might be at that stage.

But like I said, even the most boring lesson or Sacrament Meeting talk can become personally amazing to you, if you look past the poor delivery and focus on the amazing truths of the gospel, and have the Holy Spirit with you.

Edited July 22, 2016 by tesuji

[tesuji]

I'll try to give an bit of an example of what I was talking about in the above post. Here's one paragraph from the first lesson:

Quote

God is perfect. He is a God of righteousness, with attributes such as love, mercy, charity, truth, power, faith, knowledge, and judgment. He has all power. He knows all things. He is full of goodness.

This is the most amazing teaching I can imagine.

Have you ever know anyone who is even remotely like how God is described here? He knows everything, he has all power, he is completely good and loving. How did he get to be so amazing? Was he always that way? What does it even mean to be perfect like he is? What would it like to be him? How would it be to be completely full of goodness, to never do anything selfish, foolish, stupid or wrong? What does he see and know that we can't even imagine? What would it be like to be with him, and how would that feel? 

How does he have patience with us, who must seem like feeble nitwits to him? Why does he still love and care about us so much?

What does he want from us? How does he feel when we ignore his wise, knowledgeable, incredible direction for us and instead follow our own blind, foolish and ignorant path? Why do we do that, anyway, when God is all loving and all knowing? Surely that means we should follow him, and that he knows what is best?

But like I said, even the most boring lesson or Sacrament Meeting talk can become personally amazing, if you look past the poor delivery and focus on the amazing truths of the gospel, and have the Holy Spirit with you.

Edited July 22, 2016 by tesuji

[An Investigator]

Thanks for the advice.. Just not sure I'm ever going to view the Gospel Principles manual like that if I'm honest.    I think that works if you are speaking about an arbitrary subject, something like why you should be honest, I'm not sure what questions you would even derive from that, yes you should be honest.   

I think part of the reason I find it boring is probably because it's really simplistic with some of the moral stuff, it's very black and white and life isn't like that, and my life isn't like that as I'm a middle aged mum with two kids who sometimes has to compromise on certain things as her husband isn't a member (like not going to Church on fathers day with the kids)   I don't know if that is more due to the lack of debate/ teaching then the actual manual.

I will ask some people Into the class see if that helps.

Edited July 22, 2016 by An Investigator

[tesuji]

Best of luck. If the gospel is boring, you're doing it wrong. Sometimes it's too interesting, by which I mean necessary spiritual growing pains.

[An Investigator]

I don't think I'm "doing it wrong" but as we don't actually know each other I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.   

Thanks for your input anyway.

[tesuji]

4 hours ago, An Investigator said:

I don't think I'm "doing it wrong" but as we don't actually know each other I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.   

Thanks for your input anyway.

I was talking about your class teacher. No offense intended. I'm just saying the gospel is supposed to be exciting and wonderful, not boring.

"You're doing it wrong" is an internet meme phrase. 

Edited July 22, 2016 by tesuji

[zil]

7 hours ago, An Investigator said:

...it's really simplistic with some of the moral stuff, it's very black and white and life isn't like that, and my life isn't like that as I'm a middle aged mum with two kids who sometimes has to compromise on certain things as her husband isn't a member (like not going to Church on fathers day with the kids)...

IMO, this would be a great discussion to have in class.  Moral principles are indeed black and white, but sometimes the application is a struggle.  Talking about how you might apply a principle in your reality is a good discussion to have*.  Even if in the end you can't come to a satisfying conclusion, the ideas are there for the back of your brain to work on as you and your family progress through life.  If their side of the discussion seems only to include things you can't see fitting in your reality, don't reject them, just file them away as additional perspectives.  One day they may fit, or may help you see what does fit, and if not, they did no harm sitting in your mental "doesn't fit right now" folder.

*If it something you don't feel like you can discuss with the people in your class, just come with that question in mind, and later you can discuss it with the Lord.

[tesuji]

16 minutes ago, zil said:

IMO, this would be a great discussion to have in class.  Moral principles are indeed black and white, but sometimes the application is a struggle.  Talking about how you might apply a principle in your reality is a good discussion to have*.  Even if in the end you can't come to a satisfying conclusion, the ideas are there for the back of your brain to work on as you and your family progress through life.  If their side of the discussion seems only to include things you can't see fitting in your reality, don't reject them, just file them away as additional perspectives.  One day they may fit, or may help you see what does fit, and if not, they did no harm sitting in your mental "doesn't fit right now" folder.

*If it something you don't feel like you can discuss with the people in your class, just come with that question in mind, and later you can discuss it with the Lord.

Yes!

[anatess2]

I've been a member of the Church for 16 years.  I spent 6 of those in Gospel Principles class.  I don't find it boring although I can understand how it can be boring as it is really basic stuff.  There are several in the ward that attend that class instead of Gospel Doctrine even when they've been members since birth.  There are times when we don't have an investigator, it's just the ward missionaries and the other people who like the class better than Gospel Doctrine and we tend to get in depth discussions over basic principles.  One time we were talking about baptisms and we ended up discussing the children of homosexual couples issue.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, An Investigator said:

Hi,

Does anyone have any suggestions I could make to jazz it up abit. I don't want to offend anyone or anything.  

16 hours ago, zil said:

Next, I would read the next lesson before you come, and come with at least one question to ask, and ask it as soon as possible (keep your hand in the air long enough and eventually they'll have to let you speak ).

If you look at the Gospel Principles manual online, each chapter can have related videos, talks, and articles over on the right side of the page.  If you have a tablet / smartphone, you could download the video to your device and suggest you view it as part of the lesson.

THIS ^^^^

I was going to say -- if you want something done, you've got to do it yourself.  So, read ahead in the lesson.  Then read a HEAD in the lesson.  (joke: some Castle/Firefly humor there).

But seriously, read the topic and study the lesson and all the scriptural references and pretend YOU are giving the lesson.  You're just doing it from the other side of the podium.

So, come up with LOTS of questions.  See if they can answer them.  You can lead the discussion by coming up with questions.  At the very least, you'll have your questions answered.  If not, you can spend some time discussing them.

I found that I learned the most when I was purposefully trying to stump my professors.  There was just one physics professor that I could never stump.  He was just that good.  

I have had one class where this did not work.  I would ask questions and everyone simply said,"I don't know" and moved on as if I'd never asked the question.  If you see this happening MAY-DAY!!!  I don't know what to tell you.  I was flabbergasted that there were that many people who simply didn't care about what they did not know.

At the same time, you don't necessarily want to go into the weeds too much -- especially into some "uncomfortable" subjects and.  You are still new to the faith and it is important that you have a lot of milk before you have meat.  And Church lessons are not supposed to be an apologist course either.

 

[Sunday21]

On July 22, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Eowyn said:

There aren't ward missionaries attending?

Ward missionaries? What on earth?

[Sunday21]

On July 22, 2016 at 1:08 AM, An Investigator said:

Thanks for the advice.. Just not sure I'm ever going to view the Gospel Principles manual like that if I'm honest.    I think that works if you are speaking about an arbitrary subject, something like why you should be honest, I'm not sure what questions you would even derive from that, yes you should be honest.   

I think part of the reason I find it boring is probably because it's really simplistic with some of the moral stuff, it's very black and white and life isn't like that, and my life isn't like that as I'm a middle aged mum with two kids who sometimes has to compromise on certain things as her husband isn't a member (like not going to Church on fathers day with the kids)   I don't know if that is more due to the lack of debate/ teaching then the actual manual.

I will ask some people Into the class see if that helps.

True. I think if you are married to a nonmember you would go crazy, as would the kids if you did not compromise.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Ward missionaries? What on earth?

Most wards have ward members called as missionaries, not in the full-time sense, but who assist missionaries when they can, attend discussions and new member lessons, and as far as I knew, went to Gospel Essentials so people wouldn't have to be there alone like you are. My husband has had that calling a couple of times, and we've always gone to GE then.  

[Sunday21]

52 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Most wards have ward members called as missionaries, not in the full-time sense, but who assist missionaries when they can, attend discussions and new member lessons, and as far as I knew, went to Gospel Essentials so people wouldn't have to be there alone like you are. My husband has had that calling a couple of times, and we've always gone to GE then.  

Who knew! I guess the wards that I have attended have always been too small. Good idea though! If there is a woman attending Gispel Princilples I usually attend with her. Sometimes they feel lonely with just the guys. But I miss the Book of Mormon Sunday school class a lot! I have never got to attend all of the classes and boo, I am about to leave again!