What do you make of this Near Death Experience?

[Guest]

I assume NDEs aren't popular to Mormons, but this site is a Q&A with a Mormon man who had one so I thought I'd link it and see what you make of it. I like how he explains that he believes the Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price are true and that the best path to follow is in the LDS church, but what I don't understand is he says there is only 1 level to heaven, not the 3 degrees of glory being the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms. http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/william_si's_nde.htm I don't believe in only 1 heaven, but it does give me some comfort if it were true, because I worry about which kingdom I and my family are going to wind up in. I'm also intrigued if you read the whole page about the experience of the sinners in the tunnel of light are just not looking to the light.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Zarahemla

[Guest]

My mistake, he doesn't say there aren't 3 degrees of glory, he says people aren't separated by punishment, but by levels of intelligence which people eventually grow from.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Zarahemla

[Guest]

Read the scriptures instead of made-up stories and anti-Mormon websites. I think this is the main advice you need for all of these threads. Stop feeding your illness with garbage. Feed it with medicine and healthy, nourishing things. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Read the scriptures instead of made-up stories and anti-Mormon websites. I think this is the main advice you need for all of these threads. Stop feeding your illness with garbage. Feed it with medicine and healthy, nourishing things. 

What I linked isn't an anti Mormon website. I Googled LDS Near death experience. What makes you think it's a made up story?

[Guest]

Id focus on reading the Book of Mormon but it's too violent for me.

[Guest MormonGator]

26 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Read the scriptures instead of made-up stories and anti-Mormon websites. I think this is the main advice you need for all of these threads. Stop feeding your illness with garbage. Feed it with medicine and healthy, nourishing things. 

 :: stands up to applaud ::

Exactly @Eowyn, exactly.

10 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Id focus on reading the Book of Mormon but it's too violent for me.

   I understand that my friend. Thank goodness we as a church have a lot of other books and manuals to read. How about you read a Teachings of the Presidents manual for a bit? I know that Gordon Hinckleys was just released.  

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

What I linked isn't an anti Mormon website. I Googled LDS Near death experience. What makes you think it's a made up story?

What makes you think it's real? Does reading that kind of thing bring you more peace than the scriptures, which yes, have some war and other hard things, but for our benefit and learning, and also in the midst of a lot of comfort and encouragement. Why is it better to go to places with fantastical stories, and message boards that oppose goodness (not this time, but you know you do)? 

The website alone... you can't even read it. And then it's full of questionable things. I mean, why are you seeking this out, when pure doctrine is so readily available?

It's like, if I had chronic heartburn and diabetes. I have salad fixings and lean meat in my fridge, but then I'd have to go to my fridge and take it out and put it on my plate. Instead, I drive 30 miles to an out-of-the-way town to get myself a bucket of KFC, sit and eat it, and then on my way home get a big old chocolate malt and some fries. Then later ask myself why I feel so awful... after all, I do own the makings for healthy meals, so I should feel good, right?

Honestly, whether you want to answer me or not, think about it. Why do you seek this stuff out? If not, why are you in places that recommend these things? They might be easy and even fun to eat, but they are not nourishing. They are not what you need. What you need is so easy to access. 

And again I recommend, strongly, cognitive behavioral therapy. Learn how to not put yourself in these tailspins of anxiety. At very least, get the book "Feeling Good" by David Burns and start getting acquainted with the idea. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

What makes you think it's real? Does reading that kind of thing bring you more peace than the scriptures, which yes, have some war and other hard things, but for our benefit and learning, and also in the midst of a lot of comfort and encouragement. Why is it better to go to places with fantastical stories, and message boards that oppose goodness (not this time, but you know you do)? 

The website alone... you can't even read it. And then it's full of questionable things. I mean, why are you seeking this out, when pure doctrine is so readily available?

It's like, if I had chronic heartburn and diabetes. I have salad fixings and lean meat in my fridge, but then I'd have to go to my fridge and take it out and put it on my plate. Instead, I drive 30 miles to an out-of-the-way town to get myself a bucket of KFC, sit and eat it, and then on my way home get a big old chocolate malt and some fries. Then later ask myself why I feel so awful... after all, I do own the makings for healthy meals, so I should feel good, right?

Honestly, whether you want to answer me or not, think about it. Why do you seek this stuff out? If not, why are you in places that recommend these things? They might be easy and even fun to eat, but they are not nourishing. They are not what you need. What you need is so easy to access. 

And again I recommend, strongly, cognitive behavioral therapy. Learn how to not put yourself in these tailspins of anxiety. At very least, get the book "Feeling Good" by David Burns and start getting acquainted with the idea. 

I've never had 100 percent confirmation the scriptures I read are true either.

[Guest]

Okay. Well good luck, I don't have any more advice for you.

[Vort]

There appears to be some history with Zarahemla's postings that I'm not aware of, and frankly I don't care to go educate myself. As requested, I will offer my thoughts.

I make nothing of the supposed NDE. Nothing at all. It may be a made-up story, or it may be a faithful retelling of an experience. If it is the latter, the experience may have been a hallucination or it may have been authentic. But in any case, it means nothing. Nothing important, that is.

One day, every one of us here will experience an actual DE. Not an NDE, but a DE. We Will Die. So will our parents. So will our children. So will everyone.

One day, we're going to know exactly "what happens when you die". We will know from personal experience. All we learned here and worried about here regarding death will be utterly meaningless, like an adult pondering his two-year-old's ideas of what Daddy does at work.

According to prophetic revelations, the dead look on their lack of bodies as a sort of imprisonment. This appears to include those in paradise as well as "spirit prison". Yet here we are, now, at present, TABERNACLED IN BODIES. Why should we possibly worry about "what it's like when we're dead"? We LDS have been given basic information about that, as much information as we need (and probably more).

Don't fear death. But don't obsess about it. Accept it as a reality of existence; accept that you will not understand it well until you experience it, at which point you will understand the experience perfectly; and get on with the important business of living. My suggestion to you is to quit reading about NDEs. They are unprovable, most are probably inaccurate or completely wrong (if not simply made up), and none will give you anything beyond the illusion of comfort. Elder Haight had an NDE; read about that, if you feel like you need NDE input. Other than that, quit dwelling on it and just concentrate on living your life as God would have you do.

Here is an excerpt from Elder Haight's talk, if you're interested. It is actually a talk about the importance and significance of the sacrament; his NDE is incidental, and is mentioned in that context.

 

Quote

 

The evening of my health crisis, I knew something very serious had happened to me. Events happened so swiftly—the pain striking with such intensity, my dear Ruby phoning the doctor and our family, and I on my knees leaning over the bathtub for support and some comfort and hoped relief from the pain. I was pleading to my Heavenly Father to spare my life a while longer to give me a little more time to do His work, if it was His will.

While still praying, I began to lose consciousness. The siren of the paramedic truck was the last that I remembered before unconsciousness overtook me, which would last for the next several days.

The terrible pain and commotion of people ceased. I was now in a calm, peaceful setting; all was serene and quiet. I was conscious of two persons in the distance on a hillside, one standing on a higher level than the other. Detailed features were not discernible. The person on the higher level was pointing to something I could not see.

I heard no voices but was conscious of being in a holy presence and atmosphere. During the hours and days that followed, there was impressed again and again upon my mind the eternal mission and exalted position of the Son of Man. I witness to you that He is Jesus the Christ, the Son of God, Savior to all, Redeemer of all mankind, Bestower of infinite love, mercy, and forgiveness, the Light and Life of the world. I knew this truth before—I had never doubted nor wondered. But now I knew, because of the impressions of the Spirit upon my heart and soul, these divine truths in a most unusual way.

I was shown a panoramic view of His earthly ministry: His baptism, His teaching, His healing the sick and lame, the mock trial, His crucifixion, His resurrection and ascension. There followed scenes of His earthly ministry to my mind in impressive detail, confirming scriptural eyewitness accounts. I was being taught, and the eyes of my understanding were opened by the Holy Spirit of God so as to behold many things.

The first scene was of the Savior and His Apostles in the upper chamber on the eve of His betrayal. Following the Passover supper, He instructed and prepared the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper for His dearest friends as a remembrance of His coming sacrifice. It was so impressively portrayed to me—the overwhelming love of the Savior for each. I witnessed His thoughtful concern for significant details—the washing of the dusty feet of each Apostle, His breaking and blessing of the loaf of dark bread and blessing of the wine, then His dreadful disclosure that one would betray Him.

He explained Judas’s departure and told the others of the events soon to take place.

[...]

During those days of unconsciousness I was given, by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, a more perfect knowledge of His mission. I was also given a more complete understanding of what it means to exercise, in His name, the authority to unlock the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven for the salvation of all who are faithful. My soul was taught over and over again the events of the betrayal, the mock trial, the scourging of the flesh of even one of the Godhead. I witnessed His struggling up the hill in His weakened condition carrying the cross and His being stretched upon it as it lay on the ground, that the crude spikes could be driven with a mallet into His hands and wrists and feet to secure His body as it hung on the cross for public display.

[...]

I cannot begin to convey to you the deep impact that these scenes have confirmed upon my soul. I sense their eternal meaning and realize that “nothing in the entire plan of salvation compares in any way in importance with that most transcendent of all events, the atoning sacrifice of our Lord. It is the most important single thing that has ever occurred in the entire history of created things; it is the rock foundation upon which the gospel and all other things rest,” as has been declared. (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 60.)

 

 

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I've never had 100 percent confirmation the scriptures I read are true either.

I never have either, that's why it's called faith, not fact. You can build a strong case for faith-but no, you can never be sure. Atheists can't be sure that God doesn't exist either. 

You need to accept that in life. Few things are 100%. 

[Sunday21]

I found these cool lectures on YouTube by the interpreter foundation. On YouTube, I search by the name of the lesson and interpreter. You can also google interpreter foundation, go to podcasts and you will find the Book of Mormon series. They are gentle, jovial souls who reverently discuss the Book of Mormon. They help me get past the violence. I guess they intellectualize the context of the situation. I listen every Sunday and then read the Book of Mormon through the week. Life does get you down at times. I went 3 rounds with multi level sem in stata  today. Not a program ready for the general public! I feel seriously ripped off! I just hope Heavenly Father needs a statistician in the afterlife! Sigh. Where is my Book of Mormon? Sob!

[Sunday21]

22 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I've never had 100 percent confirmation the scriptures I read are true either.

Why not try the Doctrine and Covenants for a bit? We are a week ahead in scripture reading so I am giving the D&C a go. Less fighting. Very interesting. More modern language. Keep hanging in there!

[Guest MormonGator]

17 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Why not try the Doctrine and Covenants for a bit? We are a week ahead in scripture reading so I am giving the D&C a go. Less fighting. Very interesting. More modern language. Keep hanging in there!

Great point and great description of D & C! 

[Guest]

I love D&C! I know it better than the Book of Mormon.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I love D&C! I know it better than the Book of Mormon.

So, you were saying about someone you knew who thought the D&C was the most important book of scripture?

[Just_A_Guy]

Actually, there's a pretty decent LDS-oriented book about NDE's:

https://www.amazon.com/Glimpses-Beyond-Deaths-Door-Brent/dp/162108180X

I only skimmed the OP's link, but I agree that the idea of kingdoms of glory isn't intended primarily as a punishment and that our reward is primarily tied to our aptitude/preparedness/ability tomreceive that reward.  The author seems, unfortunately, to have been exposed to a very superficial version of Mormon teachings on the afterlife.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

So, you were saying about someone you knew who thought the D&C was the most important book of scripture?

I don't worship Joseph Smith though and I just understand D&C better even though I've read the Book of Mormon more.

[zil]

There was a time in my life when the D&C was my favorite volume of scripture - the doctrine is so plain there.  And then sometime, without me noticing it until I was nearing the end of the Gospels, the New Testament became my favorite.  The Pearl of Great Price has also held high position (what a fabulous gem that is).  The Book of Mormon probably started there in my youth (hard to remember).  I'm pretty sure the Old Testament never made the list...

But right now, I think I love all of them equally and appreciate most how when taken together, they expand one's understanding.  I'm working my way through the Old Testament in my personal study right now (when I have time after studying lessons), and I have to say it's much better than I remember it.  The exodus is full of things very similar to the beginning of the Book of Mormon.  The "Nephite Promise" is strewn all over the place between Egypt and the promised land.

So I say, "Dive in and don't bother coming up for air."  They're all fabulous, so when you've spent enough time in your favorite, let yourself learn to enjoy the other volumes too - you'll be better for it.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I don't worship Joseph Smith though and I just understand D&C better even though I've read the Book of Mormon more.

I don't see how that's any different than what you described of your acquaintance.

 

[Traveler]

As a teenager I had a personal relationship with the Apostle Hugh B. Brown.  We had many private conversations were we shared things from our personal lives that we both hold dear and sacred.  I know things of Apostle Brown that are, to this day, unpublished.  I will say this; there are things known by divine revelation that are not made known to the world (published) nor are they even pronounced openly among the congregations of the Saints.  With this background I will tell of a story and experience of my youth that involved Apostle Brown.  This story is not to prove or disprove NDE (which I do not hold in much regard).  But it is to give insight into revelation and who may have the spiritual gift of direct revelation.

There was a old guy in my ward.  I thought him rather eccentric and odd and perhaps a little spiritually exaggerated.  He did not hold any calling of which I was aware but often on Fast Sunday he would give testimony - usually about the divinity of Christ and always with great emotion and tears.  I seldom paid much attention - there were in my circle more dynamic and charismatic speakers.  Besides, there was in my youth, enough overly emotional (spiritual?) seemingly to me, unconnected members that often said strange and odd things in testimony  meeting.  The old guy died and it turned out that he was once somewhat of a friend and mentor of Apostle Brown; who came to speak at his funeral.  As a teenager I thought this to be a great opportunity to take a date and impress some young lady of my advanced spirituality for my age and time with an introduction of Apostle Brown afterwards.  Though I was optimistic about dating in my youth - I was a hopeless nerd and quite misguided in what young ladies were looking for in dates.  My point is that I was at the funeral for all the wrong reasons.  Never-the-less, this would become a pivotal experience of my life that still effects me to this day though I do not remember, for sure, the lady that was by my side - something else is remembered.

During the talk of Apostle Hugh B. Brown, he talked about the old guy in my ward and he gave witness that this old man had a personal relationship with the Savior.  At that moment the spirit touche me and gave a profound witness to me telling me that this man had talked face to face, as one man would speak to another with the very person of Jesus Christ and an additional witness and reprimand that I had lived in the shadow of this great man and had never listened to anything he had said.  This event was brought again to me when Apostle Uchtdorf gave a talk about standing where we are placed and lifting together with those by our side.  Many Saints miss opportunity to receive revelation because we are ourselves out of touch and do not recognize the divine hand in others.  The more directly divine revelation touches a person the less likely they are to speak much of it in public - but it will echo through the spiritual corridors of the halls they daily pass.

 

The Traveler

Edited August 23, 2016 by Traveler

[Edspringer]

16 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

Id focus on reading the Book of Mormon but it's too violent for me.

Hi, @Zarahemla

I know you've been trying to learn more about the plan of salvation. 

@Eowyn gave you some really good advices. Please consider them!

About the Book of Mormon: if wars and violence are all you can see in it, you're missing a lot, buddy! the BOM has the fullness of the Gospel and certainly will help you ln your quest!

[Edspringer]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

As a teenager I had a personal relationship with the Apostle Hugh B. Brown.  We had many private conversations were we shared things from our personal lives that we both hold dear and sacred.  I know things of Apostle Brown that are, to this day, unpublished.  I will say this; there are things known by divine revelation that are not made known to the world (published) nor are they even pronounced openly among the congregations of the Saints.  With this background I will tell of a story and experience of my youth that involved Apostle Brown.  This story is not to prove or disprove NDE (which I do not hold in much regard).  But it is to give insight into revelation and who may have the spiritual gift of direct revelation.

There was a old guy in my ward.  I thought him rather eccentric and odd and perhaps a little spiritually exaggerated.  He did not hold any calling of which I was aware but often on Fast Sunday he would give testimony - usually about the divinity of Christ and always with great emotion and tears.  I seldom paid much attention - there were in my circle more dynamic and charismatic speakers.  Besides, there was in my youth, enough overly emotional (spiritual?) seemingly to me, unconnected members that often said strange and odd things in testimony  meeting.  The old guy died and it turned out that he was once somewhat of a friend and mentor of Apostle Brown; who came to speak at his funeral.  As a teenager I thought this to be a great opportunity to take a date and impress some young lady of my advanced spirituality for my age and time with an introduction of Apostle Brown afterwards.  Though I was optimistic about dating in my youth - I was a hopeless nerd and quite misguided in what young ladies were looking for in dates.  My point is that I was at the funeral for all the wrong reasons.  Never-the-less, this would become a pivotal experience of my life that still effects me to this day though I do not remember, for sure, the lady that was by my side - something else is remembered.

During the talk of Apostle Hugh B. Brown, he talked about the old guy in my ward and he gave witness that this old man had a personal relationship with the Savior.  At that moment the spirit touche me and gave a profound witness to me telling me that this man had talked face to face, as one man would speak to another with the very person of Jesus Christ and an additional witness and reprimand that I had lived in the shadow of this great man and had never listened to anything he had said.  This event was brought again to me when Apostle Uchtdorf gave a talk about standing where we are placed and lifting together with those by our side.  Many Saints miss opportunity to receive revelation because we are ourselves out of touch and do not recognize the divine hand in others.  The more directly divine revelation touches a person the less likely they are to speak much of it in public - but it will echo through the spiritual corridors of the halls they daily pass.

 

The Traveler

Thanx, Traveler, for the account. Very inspiring!

[Guest]

I still really like the LDS book Life Everlasting by Duane Crowther. What do you guys make of that book?

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I still really like the LDS book Life Everlasting by Duane Crowther. What do you guys make of that book?

meh.