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Free Innocent FLDS Children Now!


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#241 Maya

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 02:39 PM

Martin Luther adviced at least a king to take two wifes... I was going to say... I know I have that somewhere...
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning,Satan shudders and says .... "Oh crap,.... she`s awake!!"[/url] .

#242 WillowTheWhisp

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 03:48 PM

Why is there this constant reference to 50 year old men marrying under age girls? Are all the FLDS marriages such a vast age difference? Do no young men marry?

What you think you heard me say may not necessarily be what I thought I meant.


;)


#243 Teancum18

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 09:45 PM

Holy cow, you guys went to town!! Moksha, I totally concur. That whole angel threatening to kill Joseph does seem a bit off. As for everyone who has said something to the effect of, "I cannot find that anywhere, can Teancum please give some references?" The answer is no. Sorry. But the sources I heard this from I know are credible and that's enough for me. I know it's not for you all, so I apologize. I am confident if you all search hard enough, you'll find it. Don't forget to check the biographies Joseph's family did on him. Holy cow guys, I posted that thread less than 24 hours ago. I go umpire 4 little league games, come back, and you all have gone to town. I like it! :D
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#244 john doe

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 09:59 PM

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#245 Alaskagain

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 10:04 PM

As for the Jeffs Cult...sadly you are condoning everything they do. . . . .


Skippy, I so strongly disagree with you here. (And this is a rant, sorry.)

Defending the constitutional rights of FLDS members does not mean we condone everything that Jeffs strives for in his own little power hungry corner of the world.

I do not condone sexual activity of young girls. I do not condone pressuring teenaged girls to marry anyone. I do not condone the practice of polygamy as long as it is against civil and church law, which it is at the present time. I do not condone the raising of young girls as cattle and breeding stock. I do not condone unrighteous dominion.

I defend the rights of FLDS to live in a gated community, educate their children, practice their religion, and work for their own common good.

The State of Texas, and County of Schleicher, IMO, has grossly overstepped its bounds and trampled the constitutional rights of these people. Hundreds of children have been removed from the security of their homes on the whims of a governmental agency with an appalling lack of evidence. Based on one or more phone calls alleging abuse of ONE teenaged girl. (which, Willow, claimed to be a 16 year old who had been forced into marriage with a 50 year old man 2 years earlier, so that is why the constant reference to underage marriage to a 50 yr old man)

NO reason to remove ALL of the children from the "compound".

The pictures of the children show them to be apparently well fed, scrubbed clean, wearing decent, if not last century's style, clothing. No bruising, dirty hair, scruffiness. They call their parents "Mother" or "Father". If these are outward signs of abuse, what awful things must be happening in the homes of the rude and ragggedly dressed children I see every day at Walmart and Target, and at the public school grounds?
There are 12 and 14 year old girls dressed like Brittany Spears in public every day. There are 8 year olds slapping each other and using profanity in the parking lot. Should they be taken away from their parents?

We are encouraged by our church leaders to make our own homes a haven from the evils of the world. Ooooh, we call the world evil. FLDS teach their children that the "world" is evil.

In the 1890's, many girls married at 14 and 15 and 16. It was not abnormal. Today, it is to us, but these people live in the 1890's with home responsibilities of the 1890's taught to the children. I would venture to say that a 15 year old FLDS girl is far more prepared to set up housekeeping and be a wife than the average 20 year old in the "real" world. She probably knows how to cook, clean, sew and mend, tend a vegetable garden, and care for babies because she has helped her mother do these things. She probably has not spent 5 hours a day (or more) playing computer games, chatting on line, or texting messages on her cell phone. Did learning housekeeping skills become a sin?

We in the LDS church are constantly taught that the primary and most high calling of a woman is becoming a wife and achieving motherhood. Apparently, the FLDS hold the same teaching. Is that wrong?

Is it wrong for a community to live by the standards of the 1890's? Well, we should just round up and arrest all the Amish people too. They sure do dress funny and wear their hair funny and they are so strange, they don't even use electricity. Now, maybe they don't and never did believe in polygamy. Oh, and they don't worship in a temple either. And I don't know the average age of marriage for their daughters. But, you know, when I last went to Amish country in Ohio, I met a couple of young pregnant wives who sure didn't look to be older than 16.

I am most adamantly against the State of Texas in this action. It is the result of 4 years of whispers and gossip in the town of Eldorado, fanned by the local newspaper. The marriage laws of Texas were revised because of the whispers. I am quite sure there have been many Schleicher County governmental agency meetings in Texas regarding this community - they sure didn't want to have another Waco disaster on their hands. So they went in with a warrant to search for ONE girl named Sarah Jessop, and they came out with over 400 kids, many of whom have suffered irreparable psychological damage and will never feel truly secure again. I am thinking especially of those between the ages of 3 and 10.

The stupidest thing about all of this is, when the land was purchased in 2004 and the building began, the county could have shut the whole thing down for land use contrary to zoning laws and permits obtained under false pretenses. They could have gone in and put a permanent stop work order on all the construction. The authorities knew there were houses being built - they were taking aerial photographs of the property all along. (But, I wonder if the county collected taxes on the fair market value of each dwelling once it was completed?) And, the ranch had also received fines from the EPA for inadequate sewage treatment. Could have condemned the whole place as being unfit for human habitation.

It's a witch hunt.
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#246 Teancum18

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 10:06 PM

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Right on, thank you very much!! :D
Religion to me is just like a jacket on a sunny day. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

#247 rosie321

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 03:07 AM

Thanks Alaskagain. This whole matter does seem to have been blown up for a definite reason other than the protection of children. If they wanted to they could have and should have looked at other reasons.

As far as the whole polygamy thing which people tend to go back to as the ultimate evil in this matter. I cannot agree. It is something that has been practiced throughout history and will most likely be restored one day. The way that I read D&C 132 is that it is an eternal principal. In the OT and POGP Abraham was convenented many things based on this principal. He was not withheld blessings nor were those who followed him because they lived this principle.

I'm concerned over the appallment at peoples attitude towards the principal itself. While we may not practice it now (the churchs proclamation and word of general authorities makes this clear), or may not feel comfortable with it, (most likely due to our cultural influence or spirtual protection), we cannot ignore something that is an eternal principal put in place by God. We will have to deal with it in the future. The way we deal with it today will be the the consequence that we see come back to us later.

If God puts it into place it would be pure and holy. When the natural man puts it into place it becomes bad.

Instead of openly condemning these brethren shouldn't we be reaching out in love and concern? These people are living what they know to be an eternal principal as evidenced by their lifestyle.

Attacking them will benefit no one. Not only would we be attacking them but the One who originated the eternal principal.

Skippy, I so strongly disagree with you here. (And this is a rant, sorry.)

Defending the constitutional rights of FLDS members does not mean we condone everything that Jeffs strives for in his own little power hungry corner of the world.

I do not condone sexual activity of young girls. I do not condone pressuring teenaged girls to marry anyone. I do not condone the practice of polygamy as long as it is against civil and church law, which it is at the present time. I do not condone the raising of young girls as cattle and breeding stock. I do not condone unrighteous dominion.

I defend the rights of FLDS to live in a gated community, educate their children, practice their religion, and work for their own common good.

The State of Texas, and County of Schleicher, IMO, has grossly overstepped its bounds and trampled the constitutional rights of these people. Hundreds of children have been removed from the security of their homes on the whims of a governmental agency with an appalling lack of evidence. Based on one or more phone calls alleging abuse of ONE teenaged girl. (which, Willow, claimed to be a 16 year old who had been forced into marriage with a 50 year old man 2 years earlier, so that is why the constant reference to underage marriage to a 50 yr old man)

NO reason to remove ALL of the children from the "compound".

The pictures of the children show them to be apparently well fed, scrubbed clean, wearing decent, if not last century's style, clothing. No bruising, dirty hair, scruffiness. They call their parents "Mother" or "Father". If these are outward signs of abuse, what awful things must be happening in the homes of the rude and ragggedly dressed children I see every day at Walmart and Target, and at the public school grounds?
There are 12 and 14 year old girls dressed like Brittany Spears in public every day. There are 8 year olds slapping each other and using profanity in the parking lot. Should they be taken away from their parents?

We are encouraged by our church leaders to make our own homes a haven from the evils of the world. Ooooh, we call the world evil. FLDS teach their children that the "world" is evil.

In the 1890's, many girls married at 14 and 15 and 16. It was not abnormal. Today, it is to us, but these people live in the 1890's with home responsibilities of the 1890's taught to the children. I would venture to say that a 15 year old FLDS girl is far more prepared to set up housekeeping and be a wife than the average 20 year old in the "real" world. She probably knows how to cook, clean, sew and mend, tend a vegetable garden, and care for babies because she has helped her mother do these things. She probably has not spent 5 hours a day (or more) playing computer games, chatting on line, or texting messages on her cell phone. Did learning housekeeping skills become a sin?

We in the LDS church are constantly taught that the primary and most high calling of a woman is becoming a wife and achieving motherhood. Apparently, the FLDS hold the same teaching. Is that wrong?

Is it wrong for a community to live by the standards of the 1890's? Well, we should just round up and arrest all the Amish people too. They sure do dress funny and wear their hair funny and they are so strange, they don't even use electricity. Now, maybe they don't and never did believe in polygamy. Oh, and they don't worship in a temple either. And I don't know the average age of marriage for their daughters. But, you know, when I last went to Amish country in Ohio, I met a couple of young pregnant wives who sure didn't look to be older than 16.

I am most adamantly against the State of Texas in this action. It is the result of 4 years of whispers and gossip in the town of Eldorado, fanned by the local newspaper. The marriage laws of Texas were revised because of the whispers. I am quite sure there have been many Schleicher County governmental agency meetings in Texas regarding this community - they sure didn't want to have another Waco disaster on their hands. So they went in with a warrant to search for ONE girl named Sarah Jessop, and they came out with over 400 kids, many of whom have suffered irreparable psychological damage and will never feel truly secure again. I am thinking especially of those between the ages of 3 and 10.

The stupidest thing about all of this is, when the land was purchased in 2004 and the building began, the county could have shut the whole thing down for land use contrary to zoning laws and permits obtained under false pretenses. They could have gone in and put a permanent stop work order on all the construction. The authorities knew there were houses being built - they were taking aerial photographs of the property all along. (But, I wonder if the county collected taxes on the fair market value of each dwelling once it was completed?) And, the ranch had also received fines from the EPA for inadequate sewage treatment. Could have condemned the whole place as being unfit for human habitation.

It's a witch hunt.



#248 WillowTheWhisp

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 03:30 AM

Based on one or more phone calls alleging abuse of ONE teenaged girl. (which, Willow, claimed to be a 16 year old who had been forced into marriage with a 50 year old man 2 years earlier, so that is why the constant reference to underage marriage to a 50 yr old man)


Thanks, yes I realise that the original phone call claims to relate to a marriage between a teenage girl and a 50 year old man - but everyone seems to be talking as if only men age 50 and over marry young girls, as if no men younger than 50 ever have wives spiritual, plural or otherwise. I just wanted to know how much truth there is in this or if it is just another one of those wild assumptions based upon one false claim. Are the young pregnant women all married to older men or are some married to men closer to their own age? Being married to an older man isn't a crime as far as I'm aware and I know a couple of families where the husband is considerably older than the wife yet they are happy normal families. The argument is often thrown out that the husband will die before the wife and leave her to cope alone. Well my first husband was only 4 years older than me and yet he dies when our youngest child was only 7. That is something you just never know about. Also in a closely knit community such as the FLDS a widow would never end up 'alone' would she? Especially in a plural marriage situation.

What you think you heard me say may not necessarily be what I thought I meant.


;)


#249 Fiannan

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 02:10 PM

Wow, I just found a link to the FLDS site through one of the posters profiles here. I'll bet Boss Hogg (remember Dules of Hazzard?) would have loved this little item:

Posted Image

Captive FLDS Children

Is Midland County expecting a war anytime soon with Mexico? Certainly a lot of weaponry if you consider this as well as the other pictures on the site.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

#250 rosie321

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 02:44 PM

Though this picture is not new, I still cannnot understand completely why they brought in the tanks than to rile some feathers.

Perhaps they were expecting a huge standoff. In some of our worst cities they do not send in the tanks when they go into very dangerous situations. Perhaps if they did there would be a little less drugs and crime.



I also wonder did anyone ever try and actually go near the place before they brought the tanks in? It really seems like this part of Texas never wanted these people there right from the start and were looking for every excuse to get rid of them rather than to let them live in peace..

Perhaps if they had actually tried without the tanks, they might have been surprised at how these people might have responded. They assumed a lot going in. Had they been better neighbors they might even have had a better idea of what was going on inside

It also would have saved a lot of tax payer money and grief had they tried a different approach.



Wow, I just found a link to the FLDS site through one of the posters profiles here. I'll bet Boss Hogg (remember Dules of Hazzard?) would have loved this little item:

Posted Image

Captive FLDS Children

Is Midland County expecting a war anytime soon with Mexico? Certainly a lot of weaponry if you consider this as well as the other pictures on the site.



#251 Maya

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 08:59 AM

Did you guys read the letter to governor too? Think if from all those over 400 only 1 or 2 have in real been abused.. that would be pretty bad for texas state! me thinks... "resulting in permanent mental damage through threats, intimidation, and ultimately separating them from their parents, disregarding their own Psychological expert advice to keep children with at least their mother."
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning,Satan shudders and says .... "Oh crap,.... she`s awake!!"[/url] .

#252 Marsha

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 12:09 PM

I am going to close this thread now. I think that everyone has expressed their opinion at least once and now it is only being beat to death. Marsha




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