Women and the Priesthood

[HiJolly]

It seems to me in the course of my life I have heard of stories where perhaps a mother was in a car wreck and was stranded and blessed her injured children using the husbands priesthood. I am sure I have heard two or three other such stories. I have no idea where to search for them.

I guess the question is whether or not this practice is authorized of the Lord.....and if so, under what circumstances would it be a righteous act. Does anyone know of any printed authoritative commentary on this question?

Heavenly Father gives the Gifts to all, both male and female. One such gift is the gift of healing. It's scriptural, and I personally know that women can and should heal when circumstances call for it. Just don't invoke the priesthood, if that part bothers you (or your bishop, husband, whomever). By the power of faith, all things are possible.

HiJolly

[WillowTheWhisp]

The problem with "I have heard a story" is that quite often they can be embellishments of original stories in order to illustrate a point which the original story did not in fact illustrate or they may even be urban legends. There seem to be a lot of those in the Church which is why we were advised to be wary of passing them on or using them in Sacrament talks.

[Misshalfway]

You are probably thinking of Joseph F. Smith's editorial in the Improement Era when he was President of the Church:

A wife does not hold the priesthood in connection with her husband, but she enjoys the benefits thereof with him; and if she is requested to lay hands on the sick with him, or with any other officer holding the Melchizedek priesthood, she may do so with perfect propriety. It is no uncommon thing for a man and wife unitedly to administer to their children, and the husband being mouth, he may properly say out of courtesy, "By authority of the holy priesthood in us vested.” (Joseph F. Smith Improvement Era, 1907, vol. 10 pg. 308)

There are random occurences of women invoking their husband's priesthood, but there are thousands and thousands of references where they do it simplyin the name of Jesus.

RE: the healing of the oxen. Again, it wasn't Eliza Snow, it was Mary Fielding's oxen. And she didn't do it. She had some men in the wagon company do it.

Sorry. I didn't see this quote before I posted. I appreciate it. I am not sure I understand it fully. I have never read this before. And never have been taught that I ever could stand in to bless my children. I have thought about it before, when I have been alone and without anyone else around. Like when my 3 month old was in the ER getting a spinal tap.

I guess I wonder about the circumstances. What about when the Husband is not worthy to act on the priesthood he holds or is under disciplinary action? What circumstances is this really ok? Isn't it ok ONLY if no other priesthood leaders can be found?

And are you sure about the oxen thing....I thought for sure she had blessed the oxen. I think they even put a little reference to it in one of the movies at the Joseph Smith Memorial building.

[VisionOfLehi]

It wonderful that women have so much faith in the Priesthood... but I don't think they need to believe it's the only way to get something done, or to get an "emergency" blessing for someone.

Using the Priesthood is acting in the Lord's name. That is, when used righteously it's as if the Savior is doing it, and the Priesthood holder is just a stand in.

In dire need and earnest prayer, I would think that that a women could pretty much cut out the middle man, and have the Lord do it Himself with His great power.

Remember... He knows us perfectly.He knows what blessings we need, and has them in waiting for us to prepare ourselves and ask for them. I would assume this still applies in a situation where a Priesthood holder isn't around.

Note: This doesn't excuse Priesthood holders one whit. We've been charged with the duty of watching over and building up the Church and taking care all who're in it. Hometeachers should be available for most blessings, if a husband/father is not. But, like with the child dying in their mother's arms... Sometimes there's no way for a Priesthood holder to be there when needed.

[splendidsun]

Sorry. I didn't see this quote before I posted. I appreciate it. I am not sure I understand it fully. I have never read this before. And never have been taught that I ever could stand in to bless my children. I have thought about it before, when I have been alone and without anyone else around. Like when my 3 month old was in the ER getting a spinal tap.

...And are you sure about the oxen thing....I thought for sure she had blessed the oxen. I think they even put a little reference to it in one of the movies at the Joseph Smith Memorial building.

I am quite sure on the oxen thing. In the movie, they don't show the actual blessing. For more on this particular healing see Lavina Fielding Anderson, "Mary Fielding Smith: Her Ox Goes Marching On," Dialogue 14 (Winter 1981): 91-100. You can read it online here.

To understand female participation in healing ordinances, it is important to realize that it was a very common thing until the 1920's or so. Women were allowed to anoint and confirm the anointing. This is no longer the case, so one must realize that all the teachings by the prophets and apostles on this matter are no longer in force.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I apologize to some if I seem too overbearing. I would prefer the words of the living apostles over hearsay. If a man or a woman has not been ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood, they cannot use it. Anyone can, however, exercise faith and call upon the Lord in prayer for the things they stand in need of.

LDS.org - Liahona Article - Priesthood Authority in the Family and the Church

[kona0197]

Still Small Voice - you are aware that SuSE signed a deal with Microsoft so using SuSE is much like buying Windows right? Besides Ubuntu is the way to go. SuSE is far to bloated.

I now return to the topic on hand...

[japacific]

Why would God give the priesthood only to males?

[kona0197]

Giving birth and being a mother is a far higher calling then the Priesthood I would think.

[japacific]

I don't follow you.

[kona0197]

Well guys can't have kids right? Women are blessed to bring life into the world.

[japacific]

Well a lot of them can.

[Elphaba]

I am looking for any information Gospel Doctrine on the following issue. <snip>Thank you in advance for your time.

Your wife is correct in that women did give blessings to the ill in the early days of the Church. There was so much bloodshed from mob attacks, a well as disease and injuries. Husbands were often away on missions, or other Church responsibilities. So the women would bless their children or other people who were ill, and no one thought anything of it at the time.

The same when the Saints crossed the plains to come to Salt Lake City, and in SLC when there was not a male priesthood holder available. The women of the early Salt Lake Church speak of it often. You've already been given a good number of quotes.

Additionally, there was a very brief, but little known moment, in the Church's history when some of the elite women did hold the priesthood along with their husband's. Emma was the first to receive the priesthood on May 28, 1843.

However, after Joseph was murdered the support for the women holding the priesthood dwindled under Brigham Young's authority. Essentially he made it clear none of the women held the priesthood. Thus the end of the very short, and fascinating period when Joseph did confer the priesthood on women.

My thread was not well received, especially by men, but they did not really read what I wrote. They assumed I was saying women still held the priesthood today when I was not. It didn't help when people from outside the board swooped in and took it over.

Perhaps I'll resurrect it, and try to keep it on track.

By the way Roya, the Church was not organized until 1830. So you should tell your wife 1800 is too early. Just an FYI.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

Royalohh, here is a thread that will give you the information you need. The original poster Gaia, is possibly the foremost scriptorian on this issue. Be forewarned that this is a thorny issue - especially for some men.

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/7009-what-god-thinks-about-women-priesthood.html

Hi Moksha,

Well, this is the first time this has ever happened, but I strongly disagree with you.

I agree Gaia is knowledgable about the issue, but her conclusions are suspect. Additionally, she does have an agenda that subtely twists the truth to fit it into her connection with the universe, so to speak.

I've mentioned a thread I started about a very short time when women did hold the priesthood. She is the one who swooped in and took it over, turning the thread into a farce. I adamantly asked her to stop posting in my thread as she was ruining it with her short-sighted posts, and she did not.

I finally asked the mods to shut the thread down.

I do not claim to be the ultimate expert about the Church's history with women and the priesthood, but I do know a bit. And as conceited as this sounds, I know as much about it as Gaia does. The difference is I do my best to stick to the hard facts while providing perspective. She takes the facts and goes all ethereal with them.

That's why I was so angry when she kept writing things that were haflway true, completely true, and total nonsense, all in a maze of insistence that women still held the priesthood today. That was never my claim in the thread, but because of her presumptuous interference, that is what everyone began to think I was saying.

I'm sure I'll never disagree with you again, as you know I hold you in the highest esteem.

Gaia. Bah.

Elphaba

[Misshalfway]

Your wife is correct in that women did give blessings to the ill in the early days of the Church. There was so much bloodshed from mob attacks, a well as disease and injuries. Husbands were often away on missions, or other Church responsibilities. So the women would bless their children or other people who were ill, and no one thought anything of it at the time.

The same when the Saints crossed the plains to come to Salt Lake City, and in SLC when there was not a male priesthood holder available. The women of the early Salt Lake Church speak of it often. You've already been given a good number of quotes.

Additionally, there was a very brief, but little known moment, in the Church's history when some of the elite women did hold the priesthood along with their husband's. Emma was the first to receive the priesthood on May 28, 1843.

However, after Joseph was murdered the support for the women holding the priesthood dwindled under Brigham Young's authority. Essentially he made it clear none of the women held the priesthood. Thus the end of the very short, and fascinating period when Joseph did confer the priesthood on women.

My thread was not well received, especially by men, but they did not really read what I wrote. They assumed I was saying women still held the priesthood today when I was not. It didn't help when people from outside the board swooped in and took it over.

Perhaps I'll resurrect it, and try to keep it on track.

By the way Roya, the Church was not organized until 1830. So you should tell your wife 1800 is too early. Just an FYI.

Elphaba

Was this part of working out all the kinks in the early days of restoration or was this something the Lord allowed out of necessity? I know the temple work started before the temple was completed...and that the Lord gave permission for that, but that some of the sealing practices and ideas were inaccurate and the Lord then corrected those misunderstandings. It seems the Lord allowed the early saints to make some mistakes or allowed different policies as the church needed time to grow up.

[VisionOfLehi]

Why would God give the priesthood only to males?

Why not?

[Maya]

I have a feeling that it is much easier to wemen to be close to our Hevenly Father and have strong faith and by this faith they can do miracles just like Melkesed...preasthood owners. Wemen do not need preashood, we have faith.

My mother, not a member of the church healed my littlebrother by putting her hands on his head and commanding the feaver to go away. The fewer went down that instant!

That is why the most terrible thing that can happen is as a woman looses faith or willingly follows the adversary... since we wemen have a Hevenly gift from our Father, a gift that makes us more devine if we follow the right path. A good woman has a breath of heaven in her! Men have to work harder to accomplish that and that is why they have the preasthood.

IMHO

[splendidsun]

Your wife is correct in that women did give blessings to the ill in the early days of the Church. There was so much bloodshed from mob attacks, a well as disease and injuries. Husbands were often away on missions, or other Church responsibilities. So the women would bless their children or other people who were ill, and no one thought anything of it at the time.

The same when the Saints crossed the plains to come to Salt Lake City, and in SLC when there was not a male priesthood holder available...

Your reasons for the practice are simply mistaken. It had nothing to do with the lack of men around.

As to the Priesthood that women shared with men, as you say, I would refer you to the link in my previous comment.

[lilered]

To address the issue a little further:

Gods Plan Of Salvation holds that the family is at the center. That Fathers (Men) and Mothers (Women) as partners and have joint responsiblities and in addition have seperateresponsilbities. Worthy Men are blessed and given the authority (Priesthood) to act in Gods name on the Earth and to perform Gods business here on earth. Women are blessed and given the nurturing role in the family. They are joint partners in the responsbility of the family and supportive of one another.

[japacific]

Why not?

I don't think its fair.

If women's greatest calling is motherhood, then wouldn't the equal to that given to man in fatherhood? As far as giving birth goes, every species of animal is the same but do you think think God gives the priesthood to animals? The bible does not say its a higher calling then the priesthood.

Genesis 3:16: To the woman he said,"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.Your desire will be for your husband,and he will rule over you."

[lilered]

It is not about being fair; To be a Mother of Man, is a great honor. To rear the young to walk uprightly and mold them into righteous men and women so they can return to Heavenly Father. Women are blessed to be able to build stronger families and communities.

The errand of angels is given to women;

And this is a gift that, as sisters, we claim:

To do whatsoever is gentle and human,

To cheer and to bless in humanity’s name.

Is one greater than the other? No, both are equally as important but each has it's own responsibilities and tasks.

As for the pain during childbirth. You will have to take that up with God himself.

Genesis 3

13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent abeguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the aserpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art bcursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put aenmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; bit shall cbruise thy head, and thou shalt dbruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy ehusband, and he shall rule over thee.

[Hemidakota]

I hold our Heavenly Mother in the greatest esteem beyond my earthy parents. She is one of my creator; along with our FATHER.

[Misshalfway]

Why not?

I don't think its fair.

If women's greatest calling is motherhood, then wouldn't the equal to that given to man in fatherhood? As far as giving birth goes, every species of animal is the same but do you think think God gives the priesthood to animals? The bible does not say its a higher calling then the priesthood.

Genesis 3:16: To the woman he said,"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.Your desire will be for your husband,and he will rule over you."

I understand these feelings. Sometimes it really feels like perhaps God likes the boys best. Sometimes my mind wonders if God is sexist. Or if the scriptures were twisted in that sort of way because of the culture of those early Israelites. ( I won't say that all of my confusion and childlike indignation is gone on this subject.)

But, I can't believe in a God like that. I don't understand everything yet. I do gather comfort from the Savior and his reverence and inclusion of women. It is clear they were part of his inner circle and he did educate people to understand. And I do, at select times, feel that the worth of all souls is great even in the different roles in which mortality puts us.

I do know that the priesthood, within the realm of the family, is not there for administrative purpose. It is there to support and bless and it draws the heart of the man to desire his wife and children and protect them and bless them as a servant.... not as a superior figure.

I do think that Motherhood is a tremendous role.....one our world has sufficiently demeaned and dismissed. It must be so, or Satan wouldn't have sent such an assault against it. Fatherhood is just as important. It is clear Satan has literally taken the father out the equation in some cases! I think that Father uses the priesthood and the nurturing aspects of the female nature to strengthen and bless the home.

Beyond all that, I must say that being inside the influence of a righteous priesthood leader is a tremendous experience. The humility and strength that I have witnessed and been blessed by is unmistakeable. Who wouldn't want to be married to something like that?

[rameumptom]

Is God sexist? I guess it depends on whose standards and definitions one uses. Who determines what is fair and unfair?

For those who believe in predestination, is it fair that God would condemn many to hell, who did not have the free will to choose for themselves?

For those who believe in an all powerful God that is of a different substance than us, do you think it is fair that God didn't make us of the same substance he is?

It isn't a matter of fair/unfair, it is a matter of what God determines is fair.

And in LDS thought, God determines "fair" by what will achieve the greatest happiness for each individual. For some, it means exaltation. For others, it means a lesser glory. Even for the sons of perdition, it means a kingdom with no glory, as a kingdom with glory would not be a joyous place for them.

God understands that men and women have differences, at least in this life. Men and women can share the Patriarchal Priesthood received in the temple sealing. Neither can be exalted without it. Things such as healings or callings are important, but not necessary for exaltation. Why should God, or we, fritter away time and concern over things of temporary events?

Why did God allow for the ending of plural marriage? Because as important as it was, it wasn't as important as keeping the temples running and the missionaries out in the field. God focuses on what gives the greatest joy to his children, which is the "immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39).

[Royalohh]

By the way Royal, the Church was not organized until 1830. So you should tell your wife 1800 is too early. Just an FYI.

Elphaba

I stand corrected I wasnt paying attention to those dates and they should be 1900 to 1914

there have been alot of posts bordering on criticism so I want to make something clear. I am not looking for hear-say. What my goal was is simple, to see if anyone had any hard facts any links to talks and or ordinances refering to my subject. I made mention that my wife was told by the bishop when she refered to it all basically that well it was a long time ago. for some people thats great but I like to know more I am looking for dates and talks and the such not just what people think.

Thank you to all that have posted. there have been some really good links to talks that my wife and I have both enjoyed.