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priesthood and the veil


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#1 lostnfound

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:45 PM

According to Lds doctrine why was the veil ripped in two parts when christ died? I am understanding that the temple and it's practices are still in place in lds so why was the veil ripped? also what was the purpose for the temple in the old testament according to lds?

#2 MsMagnolia

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:03 PM

hmm interesting question. I will have to look up more on the veil being rent in the temple but I can tell you the purpose of the temple then was the same purpose we have now. The draw mankind closer to God.

#3 lostnfound

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:45 PM

hmm interesting question. I will have to look up more on the veil being rent in the temple but I can tell you the purpose of the temple then was the same purpose we have now. The draw mankind closer to God.


I wish I had more clear answers on this..i can't even find it on lds.org

#4 skalenfehl

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 04:09 PM

What occurred in the Holy of Holies in the temple of Jerusalem is different than what occurs in our temples today.

In the temple of Jerusalem only the High Priest entered to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of the children of Israel. One could say that the veil, completely rent at Christ's death, symbolized his flesh being the final sacrifice. Through His sacrifice can all men come unto the Father. Christ, having fulfilled the law no longer required sacrifices (unspotted firstborn lamb--similitude of His death) other than a broken heart and a contrite spirit (repentance).

The ordinances in our temples that we undergo such as baptisms for the dead, the sealing of husband and wife for time and all eternity, and so on by the authority (Melchizedek Priesthood) to act in God's name. Temples today are not built and used for the same purpose as the temple in the Old Testament.

#5 lostnfound

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:10 PM

What occurred in the Holy of Holies in the temple of Jerusalem is different than what occurs in our temples today.

In the temple of Jerusalem only the High Priest entered to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of the children of Israel. One could say that the veil, completely rent at Christ's death, symbolized his flesh being the final sacrifice. Through His sacrifice can all men come unto the Father. Christ, having fulfilled the law no longer required sacrifices (unspotted firstborn lamb--similitude of His death) other than a broken heart and a contrite spirit (repentance).

The ordinances in our temples that we undergo such as baptisms for the dead, the sealing of husband and wife for time and all eternity, and so on by the authority (Melchizedek Priesthood) to act in God's name. Temples today are not built and used for the same purpose as the temple in the Old Testament.


so then why are their temples today then in lds if what goes on is so different?

it took me awhile to think about this. lol..

#6 lostnfound

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:10 PM

What occurred in the Holy of Holies in the temple of Jerusalem is different than what occurs in our temples today.

In the temple of Jerusalem only the High Priest entered to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of the children of Israel. One could say that the veil, completely rent at Christ's death, symbolized his flesh being the final sacrifice. Through His sacrifice can all men come unto the Father. Christ, having fulfilled the law no longer required sacrifices (unspotted firstborn lamb--similitude of His death) other than a broken heart and a contrite spirit (repentance).

The ordinances in our temples that we undergo such as baptisms for the dead, the sealing of husband and wife for time and all eternity, and so on by the authority (Melchizedek Priesthood) to act in God's name. Temples today are not built and used for the same purpose as the temple in the Old Testament.


so then why are their temples today then in lds if what goes on is so different?

it took me awhile to think about this. lol..

#7 WillowTheWhisp

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:57 PM

What took place in OT times was more symbolic of future events. The sacrifice of the animals was symbolic of the sacrifice of the Saviour. There's a lot of symbolism. There are temples today because there are things which can only be done in temples. The temple is a holy place, a place apart, a place where the Lord can dwell.

What you think you heard me say may not necessarily be what I thought I meant.


;)


#8 skalenfehl

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 06:34 AM

so then why are their temples today then in lds if what goes on is so different?

it took me awhile to think about this. lol..


I explained it briefly in the third paragraph. The biggest difference is that there are no longer sacrifices performed as were in the O.T. Today's temples in the LDS church are used for performing sacred ordinances for ourselves and for those who have passed on to further our eternal progression (exaltation).

1. Baptisms for the dead (1 Cor.)
2. Personal Endowments
3. Temple Marriage (sealing for time and all eternity)
4. #2 and #3 for the dead

etc.

History of Temples
LDS.org - Liahona Article - Why We Build Temples
LDS.org - Liahona Article - Why These Temples?
LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Law of Sacrifice
LDS.org - Ensign Article - Jesus and the Temple

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but our prophet also speaks with Christ face to face in our temple's holy of holies, a place set aside for this purpose for any revelations or instruction that the Lord sees fit to give.

Before temples are dedicated, there is an open house to allow the public in to view the inside of the temple and what occurs. If you live near where one is being built, feel free to visit and take the open house tour before the temple is dedicated and closed to the general public.

#9 tomk

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 06:42 AM

Like Skale indicated (forgive me Skale if I misrepresent you) when I think of the veil being "rent" from top to bottom, I think of the Savior's body, pierced and bleeding, given as a ransom "for all". Priesthood power, the Melchezidek Priesthood, holds the "keys to the knowledge of God". Priesthood power prepares us to see within the veil, even as the brother of Jared. The fullness of the Priesthood is when we are able to receive the Second Comforter. For that intent was the Priesthood restored! Moses tried to bring his people into the presence of Christ, but they would not.

#10 MorningStar

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:52 PM

Interesting topic! :D

#11 Islander

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 04:35 PM

This is a fascinating topic!! I had never actually found a specific revelation by the prophets on the subject, but my grandma had some pretty inspiring thoughts about it. The temple holds and was built as a permanent replacement for the tabernacle and is covered by the veil. So if we refer to the temple in which the veil was rent at the death of Jesus then I suggest that the correct temple must be the one with the "true tabernacle". The "true tabernacle" was pitched by the Lord not by man Hebrews 8:2 Obviously Herod's Temple is not "pitched by the lord". "a greater and more perfect tabernacle" We are told "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;". Hebrews 9:11. In this case "perfect tabernacle" can also be translated as final tabernacle. But with either perfect or final it is "not made with hands". Again the temple of the Idumean who ruled from Jerusalem was clearly and unequivocally made by human hand. The Atonement HAD to happen. "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Hebrews 9:22 But we are told in Hebrews 10:4 "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." The blood of animals and birds was insufficient and a better sacrifice was needed. Hebrews 9:23 The better sacrifice was Jesus Christ. Hebrews 10:10 The real temple is heaven. Hebrews 10:12. So what then is the veil? As it says in Hebrews 10:20 the veil is the flesh of Jesus Christ. So I must conclude that when the veil was rent it was the flesh of Jesus. If the veil in the temple of Herod was rent there is noting in the Bible in support of such a premise. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, the rocks rent;and Mark 15:38 38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. Luke 23:45 45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. Hebrews 8:1 - 2 1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. Hebrews 9:3 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hebrews 9:19 - 25 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; Hebrews 10:4 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Hebrews 10:10 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:12 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Hebrews 10:20 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Thus the Kingdom of God is open to all thru faith in His name. No longer the mysteries of God, the sacred space and personal communion with the Almighty remain the domain of the High Priest. The terms of the Covenant are uncovered, the rights to adherence to the House of Israel belong to ALL and God Himself has stated that the blessings of Heaven and of the Kingdom are open to ALL. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Of course, unless the Prophets says otherwise.

#12 Misshalfway

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 04:38 PM

Dang! We aren't doing sacrifices anymore? What am I gonna do with this cow?

#13 Jenamarie

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 04:42 PM

That's a lotta ground beef Miss!

#14 lostnfound

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 04:57 PM

Dang! We aren't doing sacrifices anymore? What am I gonna do with this cow?


rofl

#15 lostnfound

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 04:58 PM

This is a fascinating topic!! I had never actually found a specific revelation by the prophets on the subject, but my grandma had some pretty inspiring thoughts about it.

The temple holds and was built as a permanent replacement for the tabernacle and is covered by the veil. So if we refer to the temple in which the veil was rent at the death of Jesus then I suggest that the correct temple must be the one with the "true tabernacle". The "true tabernacle" was pitched by the Lord not by man Hebrews 8:2 Obviously Herod's Temple is not "pitched by the lord".
"a greater and more perfect tabernacle"

We are told "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;". Hebrews 9:11. In this case "perfect tabernacle" can also be translated as final tabernacle. But with either perfect or final it is "not made with hands". Again the temple of the Idumean who ruled from Jerusalem was clearly and unequivocally made by human hand.

The Atonement HAD to happen.
"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Hebrews 9:22 But we are told in Hebrews 10:4 "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." The blood of animals and birds was insufficient and a better sacrifice was needed. Hebrews 9:23 The better sacrifice was Jesus Christ. Hebrews 10:10

The real temple is heaven. Hebrews 10:12. So what then is the veil? As it says in Hebrews 10:20 the veil is the flesh of Jesus Christ. So I must conclude that when the veil was rent it was the flesh of Jesus. If the veil in the temple of Herod was rent there is noting in the Bible in support of such a premise.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, the rocks rent;and

Mark 15:38
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Luke 23:45
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Hebrews 8:1 - 2
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Hebrews 9:3

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 9:19 - 25
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Hebrews 10:4
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Hebrews 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:12
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:20
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Thus the Kingdom of God is open to all thru faith in His name. No longer the mysteries of God, the sacred space and personal communion with the Almighty remain the domain of the High Priest. The terms of the Covenant are uncovered, the rights to adherence to the House of Israel belong to ALL and God Himself has stated that the blessings of Heaven and of the Kingdom are open to ALL.

And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Of course, unless the Prophets says otherwise.


might want to change your story. The veil to the temple was actually ripped from top to bottom allowing acces to the holy of holies.

#16 Islander

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 08:35 PM

Yes...It exposed the H of H. I was just suggesting what it may mean spiritually. I am sure the Priest replaced the veil within the hour. They missed the symbolism of the physical event.:)

#17 Hemidakota

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 09:34 AM

According to Lds doctrine why was the veil ripped in two parts when christ died?
I am understanding that the temple and it's practices are still in place in lds so
why was the veil ripped?

also what was the purpose for the temple in the old testament according to lds?


It was the last act from GOD revealing the rejection of His own people and brought the Savior to the cross, did GOD rent the veil of the Holy of Holies as last vestige of supreme sanctity departed from that place.

Skale has already commented on why we have temples.

#18 Hemidakota

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 09:38 AM

Yes...It exposed the H of H. I was just suggesting what it may mean spiritually. I am sure the Priest replaced the veil within the hour. They missed the symbolism of the physical event.:)


There were two veils between the outer room and the sanctioned room known as the Holy of Holies. When the High Priest entered into the first veil, the second veil blocked the view from outsiders from seeing the room.

The Holy of Holies was in fact an empty room save the large stone in the center, which the priest would sprinkle the sacrificial blood on the Day of Atonement [Blood Atonement]. Not forgetting, this stone occupied the space where the Ark of Covenant and the Mercy Seat should had of been. :D

#19 jpendl10

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:48 AM

In the Old Testament the high Priest preformed the sacred ordinances in behalf of the people. This is not doctrine but from my own understanding. When the “veil was rent” symbolizes that because of Christ atonement we can now perform those sacred ordinances for ourselves and can go through the veil. We do not have to have someone do it for us on our behalf.

#20 MarginOfError

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 04:23 PM

To understand the purpose of temples, it is kind of neat to know about the structure of the ancient temple and how it relates to the story of Adam and Eve. First, God created the world. He made Eden, and placed a garden Eastward in Eden. After having eaten the fruit, Jewish tradition claims that Adam and Eve were driven further east. When the tabernacle (and then the temple were built), the were built with the door facing the east. As you progressed to the temple, you came closer and closer to the Holy of Holies, or the presence of God. But notice the the Holy of Holies was the western most part of the tabernacle. So the journey from the east door to the west Holy of Holies is kind of a symbolism of returning from Adam and Eve's exile back into the presence of God. Literally, the journey through the temple represents our journey back to the presence of God. The modern temples carry the same symbolism, but they follow the Greek tradition instead of the Hebrew tradition. The Greek tradition follows a vertical model. The telestial world (the distant world, or possibly the netherworld; sometimes translated as the underground world), terrestrial world (earthly), and celestial world (heavenly) were terms developed to describe the journey from man's fallen state back to God's presence. So you see, the message between modern and ancient temples is the same, although the appearance, structure, and ordinances performed therein may differ.

Dude. When both Vort and MOE are in agreement, the thinking has been done. :D


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