Buzzyboy

My oh my, so bitter. And so sure of what is happening inside the walls of a Bishop's/SP's office so that you can make the decision yourself... Checkerboy was right. It is up to the discretion of the presiding authority. And yes, revelation plays a big part of it. But go ahead, bash away. I'm sure that your anger and cynicism is very justified...

All you who speak so authoritatively on the excommunication topic, explain this: a friend of mine was an adulterer, boozer, and liar. He was called to be a stake high counsellor. He admitted to his SP his past deeds. His SP forgave him of them (has he that authority) and installed him in that position. My friend later became a bishop. And even later became an alcoholic, drug abuser, prescription forger. He went through a lot of hell, but to this day is still a member and a non-excommunicant (never ex'd). Another acquaintance was ex'd for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be elders quorum president. Sounds like a bit of revelation/inspiration inconsistency here. But you authorities on the subject have an answer I'm sure.

Dr. Steuss, I'll address you properly---I was facetiously calling you Seuss as I thought you, like him, are a story teller. I admit to a degree of arrogance in my personality, but Mormon arrogance is so irksome, I guess, because Mormons are always playing and acting the humble, submissive role while down deep they disdain anyone who disagrees with them or the church. I have come to that conclusion after years of browbeating from members and family anytime I questioned anything pertaining to the church. I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about, I shouldn't ask, question, complain. I should go along and shut my mouth, "the thinking has been done". "The church is true, and that's all you have to know". And then I find out that so much of what I, we, have been told is bogus. So instead of asking and questioning, I'm confrontational. And to perceive what I consider great spinning and rewriting of what has really happened in church history, my hackles go up. Nevertheless Dr., thanks for toning it down and admitting a tid-bit of arrogance. I know most who read these threads don't want to observe a big street fight, and I would be out of place starting one. But this topic really gets me going... By the way, what are you a doctor of? I hope not proctology.

C'mon Seuss, virtually everything you have to say on this guy's query is slanted. And you're bibliography is laughable as well. They all have a master to serve, i.e., the church, and if they don't in the prescribed manner they could very well be out of a job. Paraphrasing a bit: excommunication concentrates the mind. The Mormon apologist always has difficulty being objective, and you apparently fit the mold. But if you want to hold on to your position and calling in the church, objectivity is anathema. You're not stupid Seuss. The church has hidden information it deems "uninspiring". Joseph Smith's only handwritten account of his vision was secluded away for 130 years because he talked only about seeing "the crucified Lord". Another of his accounts expresses a "vision of many angels". ANGELS has been deleted from the church prescribed version of the vision. There are 3 differing versions of the vision. And your reference, Backman, says,"Often when people record biographical sketches or historical incidents they write or rewrite until their ideas are clearly expressed." What kind of nonsense is that concerning a vision of God??!!! There's much more to go into. But you've done your spinning of events, (gun fight, press, etc.---yes he was martyred, but a "gunfight" did occur---can you imagine the Pope shooting back, or Hinckley), and you in an apparent arrogant way, have tried to put this guy down with your slanted and narrow perspectives. The church is very clever with that, as are all the mormon writers and apologists. Lest you think I'm an apostate, think again Seuss. Orson Pratt is my progenitor, but much of his writing is vicious and nonsensical, though a brilliant man. And I remain a member, though not a penny of mine goes to this financial kingdom.

Hear-Hear, Bizabra. You're right on. Any search of history tells a long and repeated story of the wickedness and tyranny of man toward his fellowman, and toward his God. We live, as you indicate, in a relatively wonderful world compared to what has existed throughout history. True, there seems to be a cheapening of our culture and our personal value system at present. And this may lead to our eventual downfall as a country and culture. But generally we exist quite well ethically and morally relative to our past.

Women make me "chicken".

Just let it flow!! And coughing at the same time will expedite it.

Long way to go yet. People have to get to know Romney. he's just started. McCain will flop. It will be between Guiliani and Romney. But Romney's got an uphill battle.

Try debating and/or arguing in any one of the priesthood classes. The only format in the Church is discussion/acceptance of the approved line.

Thank you Ben! I found it online. That should help a lot. I appreciate your support. I appreciate everyone's prayers as I continue to search on whether this is truth for me. I ask for prayers for my husband's heart to soften as well and be willing to attend church when he comes home from sea very soon. Thanks again for this forums support. Sharyl Lee Sharyl Lee, During your quest for a testimony read a little Church history, not just the sanitized version that you will receive from current Church publications and the missionaries. But I do hope you find happiness and truth in your search. I am an inactive Mormon---been a member all my life. I have emotional discussions with my sister who is active. She is very naive about the Church, yet claims a strong testimony. She knows so little! And she holds a PhD and teaches at the Y. However, the Church has been very good for her, and she has found contentment as long as she is not confused with facts. I do hope you and your husband can find the truth and move toward it together. You can find happiness and contentment in the Church. Buzzyboy

Precisely. We are told not to. The whys and wherefores are usually nonsense. It's just another means the authorities of the Church have in order to control us, i.e., no temple recommend, no good standing, no leadership positions in the wards, etc. I drink coffee twice a day, and love it. Keep in mind, the early members of the Church partook of all these so-called vices including alcohol and tabacco, and coffee. Suddenly coffee is not good for us. Some dopes claim God forbids it; thus it's sinful. I'll keep on.