christmasvalleyfarms

Just wanted to add my hurrahs for you - I am so impressed with your courage, your honesty, and your willingness to follow the Lord when it is HARD and when there is SO much pressure out there today for those dealing with same sex attraction to "rechannel the river" and redefine religion, society, standards, etc., so they can just go with the flow. We all struggle with our weaknesses; we all fall from time to time. The tragedy is not our weakness or even our stumbling but when we allow the adversary to discourage us into thinking it, or we, just isn't/aren't worth it and we should just give up. I think you are awesome. I think you will be a great strength to those others out there trying to deal with this issue. Bytor is right, there are many who have to live in situations where sexual fulfillment is not an option, whether due to singleness, illness, handicap, whatever. You are not alone. Life is just a matter of striving to gain the upper hand, through the Savior's atonement ,as you realize, over that "natural man" and not letting him run/ruin our lives and our eternal progression. God bless!

Amen and Amen! Thank you and welcome! As I have seen so much good that the Catholic Church and Catholic friends have done and stood for. I hope that one thing this post- election craziness is doing is helping more people who love the Savior, whatever church they belong to, to come together as you say and realize we need to "stand together" as you say - the enemy is real and he is out there and he is not you or me!!!!

I just watched an interesting DVD which was mentioned in a discussion here on another thread. It's entitled Blacks in the Scriptures, and it's done by a couple of LDS African-American brethren. I learned some really interesting and valuable stuff - there's a website by the same name if anyone's interested. There were actually a few black men ordained to the priesthood in the early days of the Church, but the practice did not continue. One of those black brethren did some things he shouldn't have - unfortunately! Maybe that played a part in the Church backing off of that? Totally speculative there! Like the Israelites who had to wander for years before they were "ready", unfortunately it was very hard to throw off all the influences of slavery and took time to overcome even within Church members. Look at how long it has taken our country to make that journey? I think HIJolly hit it on the head when he said that it is really hard to take someone, even a church leader, totally beyond the influence of their times and the prejudices of their times. That doesn't make them evil - just human. There was a statement by Bruce R. McConkie after the 1978 revelation - he basically said whatever was said up to that date was policy, not doctrine, and policies change - just disregard any earlier positions on the issue because they were made based on incomplete information and fortunately now we have better information and let's just go forward from here. I'd recommend checking out the site/video. Fascinating and in depth scriptural research on genealogy of color in the scriptures - you'll be surprised at all the people of color in there - all Ham's descendants, the Canaanites for just one group there (for example, Melchizedek, Boaz[and who descended from him??!]) God certainly is no respecter of persons and anyone who has attempted to use His word to justify prejudice is just really wrong.

How nice to find this thread. Just uplifting, positive sharing of testimonies and blessings! Our God is an awesome God! Don't know if you know this, Chaplain, but we LDS believe that even in the millenium where Christ reigns and all there will still be Christians of different faiths living together, LDS, Lutherans, etc. - I think that's cool. :-) I appreciate your positive, uplifting contributions to this forum. So refreshing when there's so much that is neither (positive nor uplifting)!

Geez I just now saw your question! I don't always get notified when posts come in on a thread, obviously...? Oh well. It was a mill-rite which I got from Retsel. It was great while it lasted! Thanks to all for all the info -

Amen to that!

Here's just one article if you want specific citings of school related religion incidents only, like the clubs issue. I just think it is one thing to prohibit a government sponsored entity (for example the public school curriculum? the federal government?) from telling you what to believe and forcing you to espouse that system of belief. That's what our founding fathers were fleeing and wanting to protect our citizens from. It's quite another to prevent an individual from expressing their religious views, whether they are in a school or on the street or in an office or in their living room, because "they might OFFEND someone." I think it's pretty sad that I can take the name of God in vain all day long in a school or on the airwaves, and very few people will even bat an eye - but if I attempt to speak His name in reverence, or heaven forbid, say a prayer, I'd better watch my p's and q's or I'll get hauled into court. I'm not sure what you're attacking here , otter pop. Me personally, or "traditional Christianity", or traditional values, or conservatism - maybe all of the above. Guilty on all counts. I'm just coming from an LDS viewpoint, I'm quite politically conservative and I do believe there is a war on, it started before we came here and is only getting more heated. The BoM talks of the great and abominable church, which I think I referred to in my first post as the "they" I reference in my comments. That, in LDS theology, is accepted to mean anything/one that fights against God. Yes, I am especially "fond" of the ACLU, which is why I mention them as just one arm of that entity. I realize they get involved in issues other than religion, but what I object to is that when they do weigh in on religion they are invariably against the Christian/Christianity and not defending their rights of free speech, and whatever they do is transparently, flamingly liberal in bias and hardly representative of a full, balanced spectrum of political views. "What I want to do" is to not have history rewritten to leave God out of the equation when He was integral in the beliefs of the founding fathers of our country. This is much more than unpopularity of opinions; there is a definite campaign to censor Christian speech, theology, and expression in this country - the below article lists a very few examples. Obviously you disagree. We are obviously not plugged into the same sources of information. I am not trying to disrespect any other religion or point of view, or condone anyone's doing so. But it hurts and rankles and makes me angry to see the insanity being perpetrating today on Christianity in the name of "political correctness". Again, nothing new, a pattern of history repeated over and over again in the scriptures. I just feel sad to see this point in the cycle and be raising my kids in the midst of it. (Gee, this all started with why the Church is politically neutral! And my trying to respond to Elphaba's question.) God in the Schools: Respected or Rejected? PDF Print “The truth is that public schools are increasingly hostile to all things Christian.” Stephen M Crampton, Esq. Chief Counsel, AFA Center for Law and Policy A recent article by Charles Haynes in the USA Today proclaimed “the truth about God in public schools.” Haynes claims that while our schools may have once been religion-free zones, they are not so any longer. In fact, Haynes says, today the public schools are more respectful of religion than ever before, with many textbooks directly addressing various religions. Haynes writes that those who say there are problems with religion in schools are simply out of touch. Mr. Haynes is an academic. He hobnobs with other academics and glad-hands school officials for a living. By contrast, I am a constitutional litigator. I spend my days in the courtrooms fighting these issues on the front lines. In this capacity, I see a different side of the schools than Mr. Haynes. Perhaps it is understandable, then, that I reach an entirely different conclusion as to the state of religion in the schools. In my view, it is Mr. Haynes who is out of touch. The truth is that public schools are increasingly hostile to all things Christian. As the current war on Christmas amply demonstrates, schools are anything but friendly toward Christianity. From the changing of the name of Christmas break to the “Winter Holiday,” to the decoration of “holiday trees,” to prohibiting songs that mention “Christmas” or Christ, our public schools are competing to see who can erase all vestiges of Christianity first. While Mr. Haynes may be correct that the general topic of religion is addressed more frequently in schools today, the specifics of Christianity tend to be addressed only in a disrespectful way. Rather than debate the issue in the abstract, though, allow me to set forth concrete examples of the bias I contend pervades our public schools. • In Medford, New Jersey, kindergartner Zachary Hood was told to draw a picture of something he was thankful for at Thanksgiving, and that the posters would be displayed for all parents to see at an upcoming open house. But when the school saw that Zachary had drawn a picture of Jesus, they removed it. The Third Circuit Court of Appeals ruled for the school in a subsequent lawsuit brought by Zachary’s parents. • In Boulder, Colorado, students were instructed to select their favorite book for an oral book report. When eleven year old Elizabeth Johnson chose the book of Exodus from the Bible, she was forbidden because it may be “offensive” to some. • In Westfield, Massachusetts, students organized a high school Bible club. When they distributed candy canes with a message attached saying “Merry Christmas” on one side and containing a Bible verse on the other, they were suspended from school, despite the school’s policy of allowing other clubs to freely distribute non-religious messages. • In Kettering, Ohio, a kindergartener was prohibited from giving out bags of jelly beans to her classmates at Easter because they contained a religious poem. • In Denver, Colorado, a teacher was ordered to remove his personal Bible from his desk and two Christian books from his bookshelf where students could retrieve them. • In Santa Fe, Texas, student-led prayers before high school football games were declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. In an earlier lower court order in the same case, a federal judge ordered students and even ministers not parties to the lawsuit not to pray in Jesus’ name at graduation ceremonies, and instructed that federal marshals would be on hand to take violators to jail. The judge warned, “Anyone who violates these orders, no kidding, is going to wish that he or she had died as a child when this court gets through with it.” • In Prince George's County, Maryland, school administrators renamed “Christmas trees” and the “Christmas pageant,” calling them “holiday trees” and the “holiday pageant,” respectively. • In South Orange, New Jersey, a school district banned the playing of instrumental Christmas carols, apparently concluding that even the melodies of such songs were offensive. On the other hand, as Mr. Haynes rightly points out, schools have increasingly allowed certain religious practices of late. These practices, however, tend routinely to involve non-Christian religions. Here are some examples: • In Contra Costa County, California, seventh grade students were forced to role-play Muslim adherents, recite prayers to Allah, and simulate fasting for Ramadan. According to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, these activities were “not overt religious exercises that raise Establishment Clause concerns.” It was merely educational exercise. • In Woodland Hills, California, students as young as eight years old were required to cast spells, invent their own charms, and pretend they were witches. Objecting parents were not permitted to opt their children out of the exercises. Nevertheless, the federal courts ruled in favor of the school, finding the religious content minimal and any harm outweighed by the educational gain. • In State College, Pennsylvania, an elementary school held a “winter holiday” program that included a Menorah and a Kwanzaa display, books about Chanukah and Kwanzaa, but no Christmas symbols or books. Students sang songs about Chanukah and Kwanzaa, too, but the only marginally Christmas song was called “Christmas at the Mall,” and adapted a traditional Christmas melody to secularized lyrics. Instead of a Christmas tree, the school displayed a “giving tree” adorned with hats, gloves and doves. A federal court found the holiday display constitutional, notwithstanding its derogatory treatment of Christmas. Yes, Charles, there is a Santa Claus . . . just don’t mention the baby Jesus. Mr. Haynes cites the prevalence of student religious clubs as proof that the schools are no longer hostile to religion. While there are indeed many Bible clubs and the like on public school campuses, the reality is that they have often had to fight tooth and nail to just to obtain official recognition. To cite just one example, • In Howell, Michigan Christian students formed a group called the Traditional Values Club. School officials, however, have steadfastly opposed the group and refused to grant them official recognition, despite having actively assisted in forming and recognizing a “Diversity Club.” In fact, a teacher even donated a rainbow flag -- symbol of the homosexual rights movement -- which to this day is prominently displayed in the school as the diversity flag. When the Traditional Values Club donated a Christian flag and asked that it be displayed alongside the diversity flag, though, they were flatly refused. In fact, school officials have gone so far as to call the Traditional Values Club a “hate group.” (Watch and see - branding anything "hate speech" is the latest highroad to legal censorship - you want to effectively legally and politically shut someone up cause you don't like what they say, you brand it "hate speech", get it written into case law, and they become a burned book. That's way different from disagreement, or simply calling a course of behavior or belief wrong - and a pretty serious threat to first amendment rights, in my opinion. No better than hysterical book burners. And considerably more far reaching. )

To refer first to Mokskha's comment, it is true that this rule applies also to other tax-exempt institutions, for example, schools, colleges/universities, etc. So where was the ACLU when a recent college professor required her students to write an essay denigrating one of the candidates? They never show up to "fight" unless it is against Christian churches/theology. Read an interesting book recently called "The War on Christmas". Take that one on if you want example after example of how they are trying to make Christmas irrelevant, obsolete, almost obscene. And not just vis-a-vis state. (That's part of why I am Christmas Valley! 'nother story). How about the recent flap about ever more strident efforts to remove any mention of God from Washington D.C. and any public places, monuments, etc. - they would like to make the Ten Commandments illegal. Whether or not you are a Christian, it is undeniable for any student of history that our country's Constitution and legal underpinnings are based largely on foundations of Judaeo-Christian law. Yet they would like to write that out of history and out of the history books, because those books are used in public school. Check out a video, probably on You-Tube, called The War on God. Have you heard about the newest visitor center they are proposing in Washington that includes replication/representation of certain Washington landmarks but carefully omits where even they mention God and substitutes miscellaneous organic ornamentation ? Check out your new coins, which display "In God We Trust" no longer on the face, but wrapped around the edge where they are seldom seen and will soon erode into oblivion. Or the efforts of a few to remove the word God from our public vocabulary, as in the Pledge of Allegiance. Witness the fight students have to have on high school campuses to have and participate in Christian clubs, while any other type of club is welcomed with open arms. Then of course there is the gay lobby. Their attempts to censor Christian free speech, for example a church's right to even express their belief that homosexuality is a sin (that becomes the ubiquitous "hate speech" - boy I hate that term!) without being dragged into court, their attempts to pressure and vilify churches and citizens alike that feel strongly and express those feelings that homosexual marriage is not in the best interests of our children and our society - well, I could go on. But I have to go milk the cow! Yikes.

In this world we live in today, that is true. Unfortunately, it seems more and more that the "great and abominable church" is doing its best to sweep church (i.e., God) altogether under the rug of obsolescence in the name of the First Amendment. And that is so wrong - that is what I feel we need to stand up and speak to.

To answer the tax exempt question - apparently there is a federal law that's been around for 50 years that prohibits religious organizations from engaging in "political speech" while they accept deductible contributions. So I know the Church has to step carefully here - I'm sure they could handle paying taxes if they had to, but I imagine they realize it would have a negative impact on many members who benefit from that deduction. I think it is just a matter of time before that happens though, as the culture wars heat up. A Christian advocacy group has just challenged this by sending the IRS text of addresses given by some pastors on specific candidates. I am personally getting rather sick of everyone's "free speech" being protected but anyone associated with Christianity, so I am rooting for them. The founding fathers' intent was to keep any specific Church from being sanctioned by the government, not to keep God out of government. They were pretty specific and out there about God's sovereignty in things. Again, we know from prophecy how this will end, but much as Mormon must have known the outcome when asked to lead the army of the already morally and physically crumbling Nephite civilization, he knew he had to fight.

I had one of those aha moments in scripture reading the other day in the midst of this money crisis - when the BoM tells of the end of the Nephite civilization - how as they became wicked the Lord cursed the land because of their iniquity - ""behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them....Yea, we have hid up our treasures and they have slipped away from us....O that we had repented...for behold..all things are become slippery and we cannot hold them." (Helaman 13: 30-36) I'd always ascribed this to theft in the past. I guess it is still due to a larger and more organized form of theft, in light of the corruption and greed that has brought this on us, but what an apt description of our "slippery" economic times! Never really "got" that scripture before like I do now.

After 20 years my stone grinder finally bit the bullet. I think my main reason for getting the stone one at the time was it enabled me to select the degree of fineness; could also do cracked wheat. So now I"m back on the market but wonder if anyone who's had experience with different kinds of wheat grinders could offer their advice as to what type they prefer and why? Thanks!:)

I agree with the reasons for Church neutrality stated above; we also have to appreciate that in these latter days as the opposition to the Kingdom of God increases it becomes a legal issue - the enemies of religion in general and Christianity in particular (funny, to some we are definitely "Christian"!) are just foaming at the mouth, waiting for churches to cross that line of political neutrality so they can drag us into court and remove our tax-exempt status. It has already become an issue in the news in this election as pastors from some Christian churches have thrown down the gauntlet and preached support for particular candidates across the pulpit. Be interesting to see where it leads.

I'm having a really tough time today and need some advice from those of you who have successfully dealt with aging parent issues, specifically parent living with your family? My mom moved in with our family (her decision, not ours...) about 6 years ago. It has been really hard, making the necessary adjustments, and today I am failing like the most selfish, evil, hypocritical failure because she packed up her stuff and left and is trying to find some other options "because I don't want to help her." And she doesn't really have too many; I"m her only child, and she hasn't chosen to make/cultivate much in the way of friendships or other attachments. She's very emotionally needy (always has been but it's just exacerbated lately as she's gotten older and had pneumonia several months ago) and I was absolutely drowning in the role of being her "everything", and being reminded of how much she has given and sacrificed and always been there for me and how much she needs me now, and trying to make our life/home/lifestyle conform to her needs/wants; my kids are teenagers and also couldn't handle grandma's clinginess very well anymore either. I am exhausted with trying to run interference between her and them, try to keep her from "raising" them the way I was raised, which I really have issues with - I've really dealt with some horrible anxiety/self-confidence issues as a result and don't want them to. She drives them crazy because she is constantly offering "helpful" advice. - She has some health issues which consume all her thought process, and which she constantly reminds us of, that she is sick and needs the dog locked up so he won't bark and keep her up nights, for example, or needs someone to sleep in her room with her at night, or whatever. I've tried to remind her she is healthier than any other 84 year old I know. She has become increasingly more unwilling to be alone, even during the day, and has always been very inflexible and unwilling to change or consider other ways of looking at things. I need someone to slap me and remind me how to lovingly deal with a situation like this - I have been nothing but frustrated and crabby and fed up lately, and could sure use some success stories or ideas on how you've dealt with this or maybe even really well deserved calls to repentance. I know it's my responsibility to take care of her; and I feel so so SO GUILTY! I really try to be a giving person and am the type that volunteers to visit teach all the inactives, do service, etc., so I really feel like such a hypocrite. Then I read things here about people who have had truly abusive parents, and still forgive and carry on and do the right thing - all she has been guilty of is being rather emotionally dysfunctional and smothering, but she means so well. She is not a member, and hates the Church - only her anxiety about being alone has finally brought her to some Church activities with us, though she finds some way to not attend Church on Sunday - runs all her errands at that time. Sorry to whine - just having a really hard time today! Slap me!!!

You can reference the scriptures about the spirit of Elijah whose latter day mission is to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and vice versa, lest the earth be smitten with a curse. The idea of a curse that accompanies family disintegration is really interesting in light of what goes on around us today....? Heavenly Father's work and plan is all about families; about us, as we are all His family. Families are the fundamental unit of society, in this world and out. Though some of us have less than ideal family experiences in this life (believe me mine is not the "happily-ever-after" ideal Mormon family story either!), ultimately eternal familial relationships are the source of our greatest blessings and glory and joy. It is in realizing that, and becoming involved in the process of serving to bind together through priesthood covenants the entire family of God, that we find the joy of becoming a part of a work and an entity so much greater than ourselves alone. Anyone who has become involved in genealogy work, and I have just the littlest bit, can testify of the incredible power and hunger/fulfillment that come as you begin to find those connections and see how you fit in the bigger picture and realize...you are not alone in any of this!