Copperboat

I've never had any problem believing that we are actually descended from the tribes. The population of Israel must have been segnificant at the time of the scattering into the surrounding nations and, given the time that has elapsed since then (27 centuries) most of the world's population could have some trace of Israelite or Judaean blood - particularly if God intended it that way! In fact the probability is that most of us have descent from more than one tribe. The only real exceptions would be populations that have been completely isolated from outside contact and how many parts of the world really escaped some colonial influence? If you go back far enough I reckon everybody will have some connection to everyone else. Indeed this is probably the whole point. Just to give an example (and you can play this game with just about any part of the world where invasions or migrations have taken place ) I'm conscious that large military contingents from the middle east (Syrians, Nabataean Arabs, Egyptians etc) were stationed in Britain during Roman times in areas later overrun by Anglo-Saxons and then later still by Scandinavians. Marriages would have taken place, slaves would have been carried off - ultimately we all get thoroughly mixed up. Wholesale emigration to the Americas, Australia and so on then just takes the process a step further. Leaven in the dough to help it rise! Ultimately I'm not sure the fine details matter much but it seems to me that the lineage part of the Patriarchal Blessing gives us the assurance of a specific personal connection with Biblical Israel. This knowledge then helps us connect more intimately with the scriptures we read and helps to move us spiritually forward.

Just a thought here with regards to African-American bloodlines. Early slave populations often included Native Americans (Lamanites and therefore Manasseh) - who were frequently bred with Africans to produce 'better' hybrids. I know it's barely believable, and certainly reprehensible, from today's perspective but it did go on. Escaped slaves (particularly in the Caribbean islands) often found refuge with the dwindling Native populations and intermarried voluntarily. American populations would therefore be somewhat different in their makeup from African ones. For the record I'm British and of the tribe of Ephraim as are all the other native British Saints I'm aware of. Drew

I actually had a very similar experience many years ago. At the time I wasn't particularly interested but I was impressed by the missionary. Some years later when I first read the Book of Mormon and then met my local missionaries I'm sure that previous positive experience made me more receptive to their message. It's strange to think that this chap had been back in the US for years by the time I joined the Church and will never know what an impact he made on me or how he participated in my conversion! Makes you realise that mission work is very much a long term business. Good luck, Seb, for what it's worth I'd love to see a film like this. If you can't make the documentary try a drama. A Yorkshire version of the Other Side of Heaven perhaps (The Other Side of the Pennines?!?!). Best of British, Drew.

I think sometimes we tend to underestimate the importance of the testimonies of the eleven witnesses particularly given how they refute so thoroughly many of the commonest objections levelled at the Book of Mormon. I remember that when I first read the Book the testimonies of the Three and the Eight made a great impression on me. Because of the way the publication was set out I came to them before reading either Joseph Smith's account or 1 Nephi. The facts that these events had been witnessed by so many others and testified to with such sincerity definitely helped prevent me simply discounting Joseph's story as a personal fantasy. A short while after I was baptised I went through a bit of a wobble, thinking 'What have I let myself in for?' About this time the Stake President called me in for an interview (nothing sinister, just a welcome) and while I was waiting to see him I noticed a large picture of the plates being shown to the eight in the corridor outside the office. I remember thinking to myself 'Come on, this is true! They actually saw this!' Much later I learned more about the individual histories of the witnesses and came across the testimonies you quote above. I think sometimes the passage of time can make it too easy to dismiss events we find inconvenient. Events that don't match up with currently held views of how the world works. Eye witness accounts and testimonies, particularly such forceful ones, enable these people to speak to us 'from the dust', and remind us that they were there and they know what they saw and no ammount of 21st century rationalising can change that. Drew

Thank you all verymuch for the warm welcome!

Hi! I'm new here so I thought I'd just say hello! I'm from Poole in England, I'm 48 and married with 4 more or less grown up kids. I work for the Royal Mail. I'm LDS but am in the process of returning to Church life after some years of inactivity. Looking forward to reading and participating in the forums. Drew ( aka copperboat)