dimbulbz

The process is pretty straight forward: Two worthy priesthood brethren are assigned by the Bishop (for sisters and non-endowed brothers) or Stake President (If this is an endowed Priesthood holder) to deliver a sealed message to the person, inviting them to a council. The brethren making the delivery will most likely not know what is in the envelope. The Bishop or Stake President will determine who can attend the council, and will be invited. If you simply show up, unless there are reasons heretofore unknown, you will most likely be asked to leave. Bishops courts consist of the Bishop and his councilors, along with the executive secretary. Typically people who are asked to come to these councils are not facing excommunication, but possible disfellowshipment, or some kind of formal or informal probation. Councils are held both when the person is starting and finishing the repentance process. There are sad ones and also joyous ones - but all of them deeply spiritual no mocking or condescension is involved. If the person is repentant, these things tend to be very sweet. If hostility or resentment is displayed, then other more severe outcomes become more likely, When a Stake Disciplinary council is held, it is usually for more severe crimes and serious sin and almost always it is a melchezedek priesthood holder involved. Yet still the same love and concern are shown for the person. Typically the entire high council is there, along with the Stake Presidency and the persons Bishop is usually there as the brothers advocate. Also, half of the high council are assigned the role of advocate for the person. First an advocate speaks, then a high councilor speaks on behalf of the interest to the aggrieved and for the church. Questions are asked by members of the council, and also by the Stake Presidency. Though votes are taken, ultimately is it the decision of the Stake Presidency, and that decision is sustained by the high council. The purpose of these councils is to save the soul of the sinner, and to protect the good name of the church. In the resurrection, each of us will find ourselves with a perfect body, a perfect mind - a perfect recollection of everything we have done. For the serious sinner, these councils can greatly increase the sinners trust and faith in the atonement. If they have gone through the full process of repentance, they can be assured that When the Lord Forgives our sins he truly remembers them no more. I cant imagine any priesthood holder allowing this sacred process to be impacted by bitter people wanting to inflict more harm on an already tragic experience. I have been involved in several of these in a priesthood capacity and they were for the persons involved one of the most spiritual experiences they had felt in years. To my knowledge, no one has ever let slip about any of these things, and I have seen those involved give beautiful testimonies of their love for the Savior - and the process they had been through.

I agree Wholeheartedly. Your Stake President would ultimately have the say, but this sounds egregious.

Yes, High Counselors and Stake Presidents often attend multiple Wards and Branches, and Yes, they partake of the Sacrament at every opportunity.

I'm reminded of the adage, "Some of us are here to bless the lives of others, and some are here merely to try us" admittedly, I'm probably in the latter category. My older children have seemed to not fit in very well at church, and as a result, we have all struggled with people who may consider us a less than perfect LDS family. I hope some of you can take some of my difficultly obtained advice in the spirit it is offered. Elder Cooke advised us in conference a few years back that Sacrament meeting was the most sacred meeting in the Church. I was a little taken back by that statement at first, because I thought that surely there were other meetings that were more important. But I started to think about it, ponder about it. It for reasons I really cant express here, Sacrament, and being with other saints on Sunday has become my absolute joy. I do admit that there have been times in my church life that I did not truly understand, and I felt the same way some of you feel right now. For some of us (they are in every congregation), it is quite honestly, a feeling of superiority - the people who attend church with you are dufus' or somehow beneath your attention, and a waste of your time. You must agree that such is not the attitude of a servant, but one of a superior - its a miserable place to be, and whats worse is, we tend to rub that attitude off on others. This is not intended to make anyone feel bad, after all, you wouldn't be posting here unless you recognize that something is amiss. Being intolerant or impatient with others is a character weakness, just like being a smoker- only less smelly, Some of us actually are better than others in keeping commandments, but that's not really what church is about - being smarter, more polished, more perfect. I've often wished out loud to my wife, after one of my children (or me) is put in our place by a seemingly good card carrying member, that there is a Mormon Church Lite, where some of us less perfect people can go and still be accepted by the Lord, like those who seem to hardly need a savior at all. But there is only one church, and if we feel at odds with the church, we should recognize that the church is not for the perfect, it is for those who want take advantage of the Saviors infinite love and forgiveness. If you come with other aspirations - like being a bishop, or prominent leader, you will eventually be disappointed. People come to church for all kinds of reasons, some are noble, some are less than that. If you do not hear of the Savior during your meeting, why not be the one to bring him into the limelight? He will adore you for that! There are some people who lift me greatly during church, and others who seem to struggle with just being Tolerant. We are all here at the Lords invitation, we honor him by honoring and bearing each others burdens. Some burdens are more obnoxious than others. Pride is by far the most obnoxious burden because it is obvious to everyone except the one who bears it, and it is more contagious than a Primary class tabletop in February. Partaking of the Sacrament can be the highlight of your week (I believe strongly it is the highlight of Heavenly Fathers week) Admittedly, It can also be totally meaningless to you. You may not be able to recall any of your sins from the previous week, but the attempt is what the Lord asks. It is he who offers you the Bread and Water, along with the firm promise that he hasn't given up on you. I don't know if any of this makes sense, or means anything to anyone. but if you are struggling with the burdens of boredom, perhaps the Lord is calling you to become a healer, rather than a wall flower. You can find someone's burden and pile on, you can walk away, or you can lift - your choice.

Taken from the Doctrines of the Gospel Institute manual: 1. The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and possesses all the characteristics of a divine personality (see D&C 130:22; 1 Nephi 11:11). 2. The Holy Ghost knows all things (see D&C 35:19; Moroni 10:5; Moses 6:61). • “The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a Spirit, in the form of a man. … The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, and has a spirit body only. His mission is to bear witness of the Father and the Son and of all truth. “As a Spirit personage the Holy Ghost has size and dimensions. He does not fill the immensity of space, and cannot be everywhere present in person at the same time. He is also called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Truth, and the Comforter” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:38). • “The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. The Holy Ghost is a personage, and is in the form of a personage. It does not confine itself to the form of the dove, but in sign of the dove. The Holy Ghost cannot be transformed into a dove; but the sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 276).

If you have been interviewed and found worthy, you have probably properly answered 12 of the toughest questions you will ever be asked in your life, and only a very small portion of the world can say the same. Priesthood is based on personal worthiness and not on schooling. Trust me, if you learn to serve in your callings you will have ten times the experience and wisdom of someone who has sat through divinity classes. Welcome and may the Lord bless you in your endeavors!

The Institute manual for the class Doctrines of the Gospel has an excellent lesson on the Holy Ghost, and its role in our lives. I would not say it answers everything, but there are excellent comments from the brethren on the subject and it is well worth some time studying and pondering: (sorry, the link is not working tonight - try it later from here) Google

This was a great read and I tend to agree with the concept that God is infinitely patient with his creations. I tend to think that since we have limited time here in mortality, that our position is such that we do not have an eternity to wait on people to embrace the gospel, hence the sense of urgency amongst the missionary minded - and for some of our parenting techniques. I posted a question in a different thread about whether The Father and the Son took part in the war in Heaven, your article seems to me to strengthen my conclusion that the War, Skirmish, disagreement - whatever you want to call it, was actually between the Sons of Adam and the forces of darkness. Both The Father and the sons possessing both grace and truth, were taking a different tact, than the rest of us, who up to that point, understood Justice completely, but would have little understanding of Grace (that being charity, forgiveness, patience, brotherly kindness...) After all, we had been raised in an environment, where such things would be as foreign to us, from a practical standpoint as the sea would be to a desert dweller. The idea that we come to earth to participate in a life that will by necessity teach us charity that the Father and the son already possess, makes this plan of salvation all the more beautiful and meaningful for me, and places the learning the need for repentance, and forgiveness at the very forefront of our purpose here. I think everyone on earth possesses a natural instinct for Justice, and yet for the sinner, there could not be a harsher master. In our pre-mortal existence, it was Justice that led us to forcibly remove Satan and his hosts from our perfect home (rightly so) yet here in mortality, we often find ourselves on the opposite end of that desire for Justice, and it is misguided Justice that causes most of the heartache and destruction here. Now for Skousens ideas on the Atonement, they are an excellent start, but I also agree that he missed some remarkable teachings in the BOM, that show the need for a redeemer in a far more intimate and personal way than he describes in his subnotes in the first 2000 years. By the way I love your ideas about entropy - we don't talk much about that, although is is the prevailing law in the Telestial order. Things naturally move from a state of order to Disorder, and according to the Prophet Jacob (2 Nephi 9) Were it not for Christs teachings about Forgiveness and repentance, we would all wind up EXACTLY like Satan - I always had a hard time with that concept, but without Christ, there is only Entropy, and we know how that eventually turns out. Lovely, Lovely post. Thank you for helping me tonight with some of my thoughts. Sorry if I temporarily hijacked the thread. It just struck a chord with me, and I had to put in my two cents worth.

I was called on the carpet this Sunday in HP group for stating that the war in heaven was fought, not by God the Father, or By Jesus Christ (or the Holy Ghost for that matter), but was between The Sons of Adam and Satan and his hosts. To some this was radical and unheard of doctrine. The Bible Dictionary states quite clearly: This term arises out of Rev. 12:7 and refers to the conflict that took place in the premortal existence among the spirit children of God. The war was primarily over how and in what manner the plan of salvation would be administered to the forthcoming human family upon the earth. The scripture is clear that the war was led by Michael and his angels. No mention of the Godhead involved. Would it really be much of a war if Elohim were involved? Wouldn't we basically refer to it as an instant smackdown? I also know that The Father does refer to Lucifer as an enemy.. regarldless, I don't see The Father needing to do anything except express his will, and it would be done. OK so, how picky is this? I do not think for a moment that the Father did not know about the brewing discontentment among a third of his children, nor of Satan's imminent rebellion (such would be out of line with our understanding of an all knowing Heavenly Father). Just wondering if this was a point upon which my trip to the HP woodshed was well founded, or if it is clearly understood among most LDS people that God is all powerful and any attempt at sneaking in a good right hook on him is preposterous. thoughts? - especially reliable sources on the War in Heaven would be appreciated.

DC 130:5 states that every being who has ministered on this earth will become an inhabitant of the Earth. This would definitely apply to the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost will receive a body - or he may already have. His works are silent in our current understanding of the pre existence, but was likely one of our dearly beloved leaders. A brother, Akin to Jesus Christ (Jehovah). Known and beloved by all. I also find it interesting that Neither the Father, nor the Son, Nor the Holy Ghost appeared to play any role in the War in Heaven. First of all, God the Father would never fight a war (It would be over in a flash) It was Michael, not Christ who led the hosts against the dragon. The implication of this are that Elohim Directed Michael to fight, but it seems odd that he would not simply put a stop to the war. Neither the Holy Ghost nor Christ appeared to have a role in this either. Sorry, this may have hijacked the thread, but I have never heard or read anyone addressing these rather interesting tidbits. The Pre Existence has yet many mysteries for us.

If the council has nothing to do with the divorce, there should be no reason for the ex-wife to attend the hearing, or to even have any knowledge of the process. They are handled with sensitivity, and in no way should mocking, or gossip or revenge play a part in any church disciplinary council. This sister needs help if she thinks the priesthood is a tool used to belittle or destroy. Hopefully strong members will be able to guide her away from such destructive behavior. A church council is a very spiritual experience. There is no belittling, or condescension. The only concern is for soul of the participant.

Signed up here to occasionally ask questions and read opinions on various subject matter. I teach institute and occasional could use input on various subjects. I also would like to read about how people are coping with the various challenges we face today.