Rico

Well, if it hasn't collapsed yet(and notice that I haven't answered that question myself yet)...maybe there are only two states, either collapsing or building. Maybe there isn't even a state of collapse? Is our civilization in a state of building a closer relationship with God(and therefore building to a stronger civilization) or are we falling away? Are we a world of many civilizations like in times past or are we world of just one civilization? Each culture and civilization is more connected now than at any other time in history, IMHO. I don't know why I am posting this topic, maybe I guess it is thinking out loud. If I had confirmation from God that we were in a state of collapse, do you really think I'd be posting here? I find it very intriguing though to ask the question of what if? It certainly isn't what all the chicken little people want to hear......

My eyeglasses sure must be a different color than the ones y'all are using here....anyone know where I can buy the rose colored eyeglasses? :) Seriously, I expected the same response that I got. If it could all be recognized then things would be different. The recognition will never come at the same time because our reactions would then be in sync. Thankfully, God gave each of us wisdom to ask the right questions and seek out answers. We have been given the gift of personal revelation.

Ok, ok, I know there are fringe groups who are always talking about things collapsing and everything falling apart. Some of them are already preparing for this impending collapse. Others are trying to make money out of it. I am just wondering if we already have collapsed. It's an intriguing thought I had the other day. I figured there are several signs of a society/civilization collapsed and then decided to compare society now to them. I came to my conclusion already, but was wondering what others thought? All I know is that by time everyone realizes that a society has collapsed, it has long been dead.... - Evil is rewarded and goodness is punished. - Ignorance and foolishness are revered while true intellect is scoffed at. - An economy ceases to be based on creation and instead becomes focused on destruction. - Government spends more than it can ever possibly think of paying back - Learning between generations ceases...culture and values are no longer passed from generation to generation. - Instead of leisure time devoted to innovation, leisure time is devoted to laziness. - Entertainment appeals to the lowest common denomination. These are just a few of the signs I took a look at that accompany other failed societies/civilizations...

About perfection in the church: Ignore it. Your visiting teachers just sound like adult bullies. If you are trying your best then you are doing what Heavenly Father wants you do. Those bullies will get their just desserts in the future. Your most important callings are to be a wife and a mother. Remember the church is there to support your family. If it is not supporting your family the way it should then you need to try to fit it in. If you can't then you need to do what you need to do in order to fulfill your first two callings. Oh yeah, don't worry about problems with the history of the Church. Those problems are not God made problems, they are man made problems.

Maybe I am wrong. Wingnut. Do you think it would be a good idea to go to the Meeting House and have a talk directly to the offending person and when it turns into a shouting and fistfight match, then I keep up with it? By the way, it did reach a shouting match.....I left before it turned to a fistfight. You are saying I am wrong, so I challenge YOU to tell me what to do differently.

I'm a father. Not active in the church at the moment.

Thanks, clap, promote this to the top, sticky it, What else can I say? I think church leaders would be surprised to found out just how many people go inactive because of adult bullies in the church. I say surprised because I haven't heard a general conference talk on it. There are too many bullying Elder's Quorum Presidents and Young Men Presidents out there and this turns off way too many people from the Church. They have been allowed to be bullies as kids and they think it's appropriate behavior and have continued it into the day. By the way, the only adult bullies I have found in the church have been long time members, converts tend to strive their best to follow the gospel as the missionaries taught them.

So the three fold mission of the church is changing? I was always taught that perfecting the saints was that caring for the poor and needy. Does this also mean that the church will actually start caring for the poor and needy rather than telling them to keep the faith?

There are many place David Archuleta could go where he would be a relative unknown. Thailand, Taiwan and Korea would be three countries where he would just another white kid.

If I am not mistaken you are convert and that happened before you were a member. I think you might have felt a bit different if you had the Restored Gospel at the time. We all make different decisions when we have the Gospel. I know this isn't Church Doctrine, but I believe that before someone receives the Gospel, there is no sin that can't be blotted away by the atonement. After they receive the Gospel and choose to sin, that is a different story. I think this goes back to the Fairness Doctrine. Heavenly Father forgives you for things you do that you don't know were wrong at the time. Of course, all of this is conjecture on my part. None of us know how we will deal with something until we have to personally deal with it.

Can I join your branch? My wife and I are counting the days til we are off this rock and can actually get into a different ward/branch where we can serve. (Long story why we are inactive, it was deleted from here...)

Well the EQ President is part of the reason why we aren't in church here anymore, but that's another story. :) Ever since we decided to go inactive, I have had the worry in the back of my mind whether they would excommunicate us for that inactivity. (We plan on going back once we leave this tiny rock with one branch).

My prayers are with you because you obviously haven't had a break from your own painful past. Me? I have been through an extremely painful situation myself and know that it is up to me to heal myself with Heavenly Father's help. The sad thing is that I had to come to the realization that victims of the sinners action are not worthy of being helped. We have to help ourselves. A criticism I have about some units in the church is that often times the victims of sin do not get the help they need. Too much focus is put on the repentance process for the sinner, but victims are not part of that process. That will not change until victims start standing up and demanding that they get the help they need as well.

But I would assume that revelation was as advanced then as it is now.

Ok, I highly doubt this one, but I really want to know if this is true or not. A little background: Back when I was the EQ Secretary, the Elder's Quorum Presidency was putting together a home teaching list. The EQ President saw one member's name and said, "That person doesn't need to be home taught, they need to be excommunicated." I said, "Why? What did she do wrong?" He answered, "She's inactive. She's been through the temple and knows that she's supposed to be in church." He went on to say that he was going to bring it up to the Bishopric at the next meeting. Now, maybe he knew something that the rest of us didn't know about her, but I was a little taken back. Excommunication for inactivity may seem like overkill but in some way it does make sense. This has bothered me for awhile so maybe someone else can shed some light. Can someone be excommunicated for inactivity?